Submit paper tax return

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We messed up, we need to file self assessment tax return by 29/12/20  or face a £300 fine.
Do we need to pay the tax also by 29th to avoid the fine, What method of payments will be accepted and the best way to pay it quickly? 
Apparently we can not do it online because we will have to register for a Gov gateway ID and then wait for a letter that takes 10 days or more.  We will register for the Jan 31st dead line for the following tax year.

Can we deliver it by hand to the local office which is Llanishen, Cardiff, hopefully tomorrow as they will be closed on 24th(?) 25th 26th 27th. 
Does anyone know if they are even open at all for personal visiting?  If they are not open to visitors, I could try to deliver by hand.  
The letter says to return the forms  to the address on the letter, but there is no address on the letter, only a postcode BX9 1BA 
My theory is even if it is not the correct office, it is nevertheless an office of the HMRC.  So it should be considered as delivered to HMRC. 

I have started to complete it tonight she has 100% Foreign income 

I have done the SA100 2019, pages 1 & 2 completed, pages 3,4,5,6, & 7 left blank.   will sign and complete the other information page 7 later. Page 7 we will write a request for appeal against £100 fine (late appeal I know, but the letter containing the £100 fine did not say about appealing or appeal timelimits.  and none of the previous letters said there wil be a £100 fine or a £300 fine.)  
page 2 said "yes" to foreign and residence  all the rest "no" 

Now I need to complete Residence SA109 2019 and foreign SA106 2019 

The HMRC lady on the phone said I have to total the income for the whole tax year 06/04/18 - 05/04/19  even though she only moved to UK on 4th August 2018 ?  Is that right?
And how do I convert Euros to £ ?
This is 245 days if you count the day of arrival. 
I guess this is covered in SA109 box 3 "split year".  I think she is eligible for split year. either under case 4 or case 8 I need to look at 5.26 - 5.46 of RDR3 
I can't see RDR3 - only the notes ??? help
She does not seem to meet the case 4 requirements of "the only home test" because she still owns 1 property in France and has another available to her to live in if she wanted to. But the details do not define what is a "home".
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt 
And the only help I found on this is this page 
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm12000

case 8
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm12270

They must:

• be UK resident in the tax year  >>> YES
• be non-UK resident for the previous tax year  >>> YES
• be UK resident for the following tax year – this must not be a split year  >>> YES
• have no home in the UK at the beginning of the tax year but start to have a UK home at some point during the tax year and continue to have a UK home for the rest of the tax year and all the following tax year  >>> YES
• not have sufficient UK ties to make them UK resident in the period from the 6 April to the point they start to have a UK home – when they are considering whether they have sufficient UK ties in this part of the year, they should reduce the day count limits in the sufficient ties tables (refer to RDRM11520) by substituting the values from the table below. >>>> NO  IDEA WHAT THIS MEANS. 

Case 8 example.
Nicola is retired, she is non-resident in the UK for tax purposes having lived in Cyprus for a number of years. She has a home in Cyprus and she also has a property in the UK which has been let out on a commercial basis for the last few years.

She recently became a grandmother, and decides she will split her time between Cyprus and the UK so that she can see more of her grandson, who lives in the UK.

She comes back to the UK and moves into the UK property when the rental agreement with her tenant expires on 4 August 2014. She now has 2 homes, 1 in each country.

Between 6 April 2014 and 4 August 2014 when she started to have a UK home, Nicola only spent 4 days in the UK, visiting her daughter; and therefore did not exceed the limit for days spent in the UK in the overseas period before she started to have a UK home.

Nicola meets the criteria for Case 8 for 2014-2015 on the basis that:

• she was not UK resident for 2013-2014
• she is UK resident for 2015-2016 (Nicola is possibly dual resident in UK and Cyprus)
• she continues to have a home in the UK for the rest of 2014-2015 and the following year
• she did not have sufficient UK ties to make 

Nicola does not meet the criteria for Cases 4, 5, 6 or 7 split year treatment.

The UK part of the split year starts on 4 August 2014, which is when Nicola starts to have a home in the UK. 


Our case  - She visited UK in June 2018 for holiday - where are the time limits to be found?  She moved to UK permanently from 04/08/18. 

• she was not UK resident for 2017-2018  (0 days in UK)  (AND WAS NEVER RESIDENT BEFORE) 
• she is UK resident for 2018-2019 (more than 183 days in UK)
• she continues to have a home in the UK for the rest of 2018-2019 and the following year
• she did not have sufficient UK ties to make her resident from 6 April 2018 until 4 August 2018   <DON'T KNOW>

Don't understand this: 
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11520
Seems Table B applies but what does it all mean? 
Then I need to know what the ties are?
Any help? 
Might be quicker to look at the ties first she may not even have 1 
Also need to know what the timelimits are for holiday in UK

Ok moving on... found this 
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11510

If the individual was not UK resident in any of the 3 years prior to the year in question, they will need to consider the following ties:

• a family tie  >> No partners, no children U18 = >> NO
• an accommodation tie
• a work tie  >> Did not work >> NO
• a 90 day tie >> NO 

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/residence-domicile-and-remittance-basis/rdrm11550
No idea how to read this ... Her daughter owns a UK home, she came to visit for a holiday in June/July. Not sure about No. of days yet, but what are the limits? 
She lived here from 4/8/18 onwards so would seem to fit criteria: 
* It is available to them for a continuous period of 91 days or more during that tax year, and

• they spend 1 or more nights there during that year, or
• if it is the home of a close relative, they spend 16 or more nights there during the year

It would appear that most people who come to live in UK will have the accommodation tie if they have been in UK for 3 months of the tax year or more?

From this it would appear she has 1 accommodation tie because she lived in the UK from 4/8.18 onwards ???

If she needs 2 ties then she does seem to qualify for a split year under rule 8.

Thanks...

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Not sure you can hand deliver things anymore, HMRC closed all their offices to the public several years ago.

Have you been sent a notice to file a return for 2019:20 yet?

Why is the deadline for the 2018:19 return 29/12/2020 and is this the deadline for paper only or paper and online filing?

Late payment has a different penalty to late filing of a return.  Or do you mean a failure to notify penalty?

MDMD

Maybe the return was issued late? Sometimes there is three months given from date of issue to file the return (although the tax payment deadline remains the same). Should be the same for online but the OP hasn’t got online access. 

if this is the case then probably there is the 18/19 return due this month then the 19/20 due 31 January 2021.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

True but if the paper deadline is 29/12/2020 then it is possible that the online deadline is a month later which would allow the op more time to get organised.

But op need to clarify things to be sure.

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Return was issued on June23rd 2020 with 3 months grace period ending on Sept 29th, then 6 months period ending on Dec 29th.    Information given about deadlines, fines and appeals was very sparse no mention at all about fines or the right to appeal.  Don't know if this is paper or online deadline, I assume it is for both. 

Yes we have a letter saying deadline for completing online tax assessment and paying tax owed is 31/01/21  but it does not say for which tax year .    We assume this means for the 2019/2020 tax year because we were already fined a £100 in October.  

we also cannot file for 2019/2020 tax year because the French tax authority has not given us the 2020 totals yet because the 2020 year is not finished yet, and then we don't know how long they will take .

MDMD

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

True but if the paper deadline is 29/12/2020 then it is possible that the online deadline is a month later which would allow the op more time to get organised.

But op need to clarify things to be sure.

I don’t think so as for late issued returns beyond statutory deadline (this was probably issued in September) the date is the same for online and paper. As this is 18/19 the original online deadline is 31/01/20, so we’d gone past that point when notice to file issued.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

MDMD said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

True but if the paper deadline is 29/12/2020 then it is possible that the online deadline is a month later which would allow the op more time to get organised.

But op need to clarify things to be sure.

I don’t think so as for late issued returns beyond statutory deadline (this was probably issued in September) the date is the same for online and paper. As this is 18/19 the original online deadline is 31/01/20, so we’d gone past that point when notice to file issued.

Good point 👍

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So that could be about £3600 ! but none of this was told to us in June 2020 when we registered.  
I thought it was £300 after 6 months and another £300 after 12 months   I got this info from I reading about a tribunal for late return of self assessment .  I can maybe find that Upper Tribunal case again.   This is what then made me panic about getting a £300 fine in December 29th. Being a tribunal case it was obviously for previous years gone by. I only read the case about 2 weeks ago.

The HMRC tax person I was speaking to tonight could not tell me what the "next deadline" was after 29th September 2020 and could not tell me what the penalty was going to be.

We got a fine in October of £100 and it DID NOT say there will be also a fine of £10 per day accruing from xxx date. 

Our relevant date would be 29th September anyway hopefully. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

We got a fine in October of £100 and it DID NOT say there will be also a fine of £10 per day accruing from xxx datee. 

I know it isn't always easy (for responders) to understand the whole situation on an internet forum but why oh why are you doing this now and not in October or November?

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Because all previous forum advice was only talking about £100 fine for late returns plus 1% interest (that's all I thought the fine would be).  1% of £2000 approx liability = £20  
Because of depression, 
Because we both work full time and the tax is for OH's 83 year old mother who has parkinsons and cannot manage her own affairs.  
Because it is complicated with the income being foreign, we don't know anything about any of it.
Because we have no power of attorney. 
Because the French Authorities were threatening us to register her with the British authorities - they needed her UTR No.

I registered her online for UK tax myself with no power of attorney, she did not know I had done it she did not even know she is liable for UK tax. She still does not know.   When I applied online we first got a refusal letter because no NINO, I was the one who phoned up to complain that they got it wrong you don't need a NINO to register.  I was the one who spoke to HMRC, I told them she does not have mental capacity, they did not ask to speak to her, they only spoke to me. then they completed the registration and sent us the UTR number. 

I am considering appealing on the basis that she has no knowledge of the registration that I did in her name so how can she be liable for such extortionate fines.  In addition to the fact that all of their letters have not mentioned any fines, except the letter of demand to pay £100 in October (which we paid) but that made no mention of any other fines, reinforcing my belief that it was only £100 .  

Jeremy535897

It is not an area I know anything about, but it seems to me that as you are not her agent, you have no power of attorney, and she lacks the capacity to do it herself, there may be a reasonable excuse. See https://www.gov.uk/tax-appeals/reasonable-excuses