35 years of full NI contributions and state pension?

zagfles

p00hsticks said:

GazzaBloom said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

So, I read that as I am sue full state pension, cannot improve it with further NI contributions and I will get £27.36 a week of my state pension paid through private pension as that os the contracted out amount.

I really have no idea how you are reading that from the forecast you have quoted.

What is it about this statement that you don't understand?

Your COPE estimate is £27.36 a week.
This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government.

If you stopped work now you would receive £175.20/week starting in 2034.  The £175.20 would be increased by any annual inflation proofing (currently the triple lock).

For example after April 2021 your forecast will be updated to show your forecast amount as £179.60.  Having paid another years NIC won't change that.

So the £27.36 in in addition to the state pension amount of £175.20? Why do they bother mentioning it? I get a forecast of that from my private pension.

The COPE figure was used at the time the new State Pension came in in April 2016 to calculate peoples current entitlement under the new rules (it was also calculated under the old rules and the higher of the two figures was taken as your 'starting amount').

It serves no further purpose after that point and arguably they don't need to mention it at all now, as it does cause a lot of confusion - but the process for changing the wording of these government letters is pretty convoluted and I suspect they have other higher priorities.

The point of mentioning COPE is to stop people whinging "I've got 35 full years, why aren't I getting the full state pension".

Mind you it hasn't worked, we still get people on here whinging exactly that

p00hsticks

zagfles said:

p00hsticks said:

GazzaBloom said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

So, I read that as I am sue full state pension, cannot improve it with further NI contributions and I will get £27.36 a week of my state pension paid through private pension as that os the contracted out amount.

I really have no idea how you are reading that from the forecast you have quoted.

What is it about this statement that you don't understand?

Your COPE estimate is £27.36 a week.
This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government.

If you stopped work now you would receive £175.20/week starting in 2034.  The £175.20 would be increased by any annual inflation proofing (currently the triple lock).

For example after April 2021 your forecast will be updated to show your forecast amount as £179.60.  Having paid another years NIC won't change that.

So the £27.36 in in addition to the state pension amount of £175.20? Why do they bother mentioning it? I get a forecast of that from my private pension.

The COPE figure was used at the time the new State Pension came in in April 2016 to calculate peoples current entitlement under the new rules (it was also calculated under the old rules and the higher of the two figures was taken as your 'starting amount').

It serves no further purpose after that point and arguably they don't need to mention it at all now, as it does cause a lot of confusion - but the process for changing the wording of these government letters is pretty convoluted and I suspect they have other higher priorities.

The point of mentioning COPE is to stop people whinging "I've got 35 full years, why aren't I getting the full state pension".

Mind you it hasn't worked, we still get people on here whinging exactly that

But it does nothing to address the related questions of 'My forecast says I can't increase my pension any further but I have less than 35 years - is this right ?'  or 'my mate's forecast shows him getting more than the maximum £175 - how can this be ?' which we also see on this board. 

A simple statement to say that people who started working prior to the introduction of the new State Pension fall under transitional rules and therefore the maximum amount obtainable and number of years required to do it will vary by individual - perhaps with a link to a more detailed explanation of those rules - would probably be better. 

barnstar2077

p00hsticks said:

zagfles said:

p00hsticks said:

GazzaBloom said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

So, I read that as I am sue full state pension, cannot improve it with further NI contributions and I will get £27.36 a week of my state pension paid through private pension as that os the contracted out amount.

I really have no idea how you are reading that from the forecast you have quoted.

What is it about this statement that you don't understand?

Your COPE estimate is £27.36 a week.
This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government.

If you stopped work now you would receive £175.20/week starting in 2034.  The £175.20 would be increased by any annual inflation proofing (currently the triple lock).

For example after April 2021 your forecast will be updated to show your forecast amount as £179.60.  Having paid another years NIC won't change that.

So the £27.36 in in addition to the state pension amount of £175.20? Why do they bother mentioning it? I get a forecast of that from my private pension.

The COPE figure was used at the time the new State Pension came in in April 2016 to calculate peoples current entitlement under the new rules (it was also calculated under the old rules and the higher of the two figures was taken as your 'starting amount').

It serves no further purpose after that point and arguably they don't need to mention it at all now, as it does cause a lot of confusion - but the process for changing the wording of these government letters is pretty convoluted and I suspect they have other higher priorities.

The point of mentioning COPE is to stop people whinging "I've got 35 full years, why aren't I getting the full state pension".

Mind you it hasn't worked, we still get people on here whinging exactly that

But it does nothing to address the related questions of 'My forecast says I can't increase my pension any further but I have less than 35 years - is this right ?'  or 'my mate's forecast shows him getting more than the maximum £175 - how can this be ?' which we also see on this board. 

A simple statement to say that people who started working prior to the introduction of the new State Pension fall under transitional rules and therefore the maximum amount obtainable and number of years required to do it will vary by individual - perhaps with a link to a more detailed explanation of those rules - would probably be better. 

I agree they really should explain the 35 year rule, 2016 transition and cope on the website a bit more.  I remember a while back a guy mentioned in a thread about how he was planning on retiring in his early fifties because by then he would have done his 35 years and would be able to claim his state pension right away!  Clearly the government are not doing enough to educate people.

SteadyEddie

Hi all and season's greetings. I checked on this thread, because I have time to address a shortfall in my NI contributions, for 2 years. I thought I'd check how to do this and whether it was needed. I have 46 full years contributions and 2 that aren't full. I owe HMRC circa £545 and to obtain a full £175.20/week pension, I shall have to pay by direct debit or quarterly, the sum owed. I have a works pension that meant I was contracted out of SERPS.
That is my situation, which is at odds with a couple of people on this thread, who believe they can retire now, contribute nothing more to their pension through National Insurance, yet receive a full pension in several years time.

It seems that there are mixed messages coming from HMRC. I cannot contact them over the phone, as I am not due to draw my pension until Feb 2023, more than 6 months away, with respect to making AVC's via Direct Debit, due to Covid. The Website does not make it clear what I am entitled to, the guidance for completing the Direct Debit mandate is, at best, poor.  I wrote to them and received the text on their website in response, together with a 'no advice' stance and reiteration of 6 moth rule. Each year I delay paying the shortfall, it increases.

Confusion  reigns supreme. If the criteria for qualifying for full pension is 35 years full contributions, why do I have to make up the shortfall for 2 years when I have 46 full years? Similarly, in one year I paid extra contributions, which do not appear to have been taken into account.
I shall speak to Job Centre plus about trying to obtain NI Credits when not earning sufficient to pay NI and post on here the results, in the hope that this may help someone other than me.
For those of you who believe they no longer have to work and pay NI for a full pension in the future, I would check the viability of your eggs, they may not hatch.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

The criteria isn't 35 years. That is just for youngsters starting on their State Pension journey from 2016.

Gov.uk makes that pretty clear.

What does your forecast actually say?  The full details not the headline £175.20.

barnstar2077

As Dazed and Confused says, it should tell you on your forecast on the website.  I am 43 and it says I will be entitled to the £175 once I have paid another 4 years.

From what others have said previously, they are very vague when you speak to them anyway.  Presumably because they have been told that they can't tell people not to pay extra even if it won't actually increase their pension. The powers that be would rather people gave them too much money obviously. 

eskbanker

SteadyEddie said:

Hi all and season's greetings. I checked on this thread, because I have time to address a shortfall in my NI contributions, for 2 years. I thought I'd check how to do this and whether it was needed.

[...]

It seems that there are mixed messages coming from HMRC. I cannot contact them over the phone, as I am not due to draw my pension until Feb 2023, more than 6 months away, with respect to making AVC's via Direct Debit, due to Covid. The Website does not make it clear what I am entitled to, the guidance for completing the Direct Debit mandate is, at best, poor.  I wrote to them and received the text on their website in response, together with a 'no advice' stance and reiteration of 6 moth rule.

Have you contacted the Future Pension Centre?  They're the ones who can tell you the impact of voluntary NI contributions on your state pension forecast, and are available at any time to discuss this, even though the actual mechanics of making such payments are an HMRC matter, so 'how to do this' and 'whether it's needed' are unfortunately two separate conversations....

p00hsticks

barnstar2077 said:

From what others have said previously, they are very vague when you speak to them anyway.  Presumably because they have been told that they can't tell people not to pay extra even if it won't actually increase their pension. The powers that be would rather people gave them too much money obviously. 

As eskbanker points out, you need to make sure that you are speaking to the correct organisation for the specific question you are asking. NI is collected and NI records kept by HMRC, so HMRC can answer questions on your NI record and allow you to make voluntary contributions.

However it's DWP who then use those records to determine eligibility for benefits such as contriibutions based ESA and JSA the State Pension, so it's them - and specifically the future Pensions Service - that you need to speak to if you want to know the impact of obtaining or missing NI years on your future State Pension entitlement. 

xylophone

I checked on this thread, because I have time to address a shortfall in my NI contributions, for 2 years.

What exactly does your state pension forecast say?

What is the COPE shown?

When do you reach State Pension Age?

molerat

SteadyEddie said:

Hi all and season's greetings. I checked on this thread, because I have time to address a shortfall in my NI contributions, for 2 years. I thought I'd check how to do this and whether it was needed. I have 46 full years contributions and 2 that aren't full. I owe HMRC circa £545 and to obtain a full £175.20/week pension, I shall have to pay by direct debit or quarterly, the sum owed. I have a works pension that meant I was contracted out of SERPS.

If those part years are pre 2016 there will be no point paying them up as they will not add to your pension amount.  With already in excess of 35 pre 2016 years only post 2016 years can add value.