35 years of full NI contributions and state pension?

Audaxer

SMcGill said:

10 years to contribute suggests I need to contribute for 10 years. It doesn’t say 10 years more years until I reach SPA which I agree would be a clearer statement!

I know what you mean, but I think the confusing thing is that you are looking at the NI record page, which shows that you would have to contribute for another 10 years if you are working for the next 10 years. As you said, the SP forecast page shows the full SP and says it cannot be improved. If for example you were 5 years short of contributions for the full SP it would give you an estimate based on your record to date and a forecast (for the full amount) if you do contribute for another 5 years, despite the NI record page showing 10 years.

I wish I had your SP forecast, as I am retired with 44 years of full contributions, but I still need to pay another 5 years voluntary NI contributions to get the full SP.

barnstar2077

Audaxer said:

SMcGill said:

10 years to contribute suggests I need to contribute for 10 years. It doesn’t say 10 years more years until I reach SPA which I agree would be a clearer statement!

I know what you mean, but I think the confusing thing is that you are looking at the NI record page, which shows that you would have to contribute for another 10 years if you are working for the next 10 years. As you said, the SP forecast page shows the full SP and says it cannot be improved. If for example you were 5 years short of contributions for the full SP it would give you an estimate based on your record to date and a forecast (for the full amount) if you do contribute for another 5 years, despite the NI record page showing 10 years.

I wish I had your SP forecast, as I am retired with 44 years of full contributions, but I still need to pay another 5 years voluntary NI contributions to get the full SP.

What is the reason you still need another five years please?  I am 43, started working as a YTS at 16, and it says I only need four more years.

I was thinking earlier about my nephews, they are all at university (or at least trying to be) so they won't start work until they are in their twenties.  Then they have to hit the 35 years.  So, by not attending university (and having started work well before the new rules in 2016) I will be in a position to retire long before they are, unless they manage to land a very high paying job.  Doesn't seem right really.

eskbanker

barnstar2077 said:

I was thinking earlier about my nephews, they are all at university (or at least trying to be) so they won't start work until they are in their twenties.  Then they have to hit the 35 years.  So, by not attending university (and having started work well before the new rules in 2016) I will be in a position to retire long before they are, unless they manage to land a very high paying job.  Doesn't seem right really.

There's obviously nothing to stop people earning and making NI contributions before and during university years, but starting work in their early twenties with a 35 year horizon still puts them at full SP by the time they're in their late fifties.  In terms of fairness, the state pension age continues to increase, so some unfairness is already baked in, but those with a degree and a full working life, all of which is in the auto-enrolment era, will probably have significantly less reliance on the state pension anyway, and it would be surprising if it was a major factor in any plans to retire early, given that it won't be paid until 70ish by then....

p00hsticks

barnstar2077 said:

Audaxer said:

SMcGill said:

10 years to contribute suggests I need to contribute for 10 years. It doesn’t say 10 years more years until I reach SPA which I agree would be a clearer statement!

I know what you mean, but I think the confusing thing is that you are looking at the NI record page, which shows that you would have to contribute for another 10 years if you are working for the next 10 years. As you said, the SP forecast page shows the full SP and says it cannot be improved. If for example you were 5 years short of contributions for the full SP it would give you an estimate based on your record to date and a forecast (for the full amount) if you do contribute for another 5 years, despite the NI record page showing 10 years.

I wish I had your SP forecast, as I am retired with 44 years of full contributions, but I still need to pay another 5 years voluntary NI contributions to get the full SP.

What is the reason you still need another five years please?  I am 43, started working as a YTS at 16, and it says I only need four more years.

Probably like me - they have spent most of their working lives 'contracted out', so that when our new State Pension 'starting amounts' were calculated in 2016 (under both the old and new rules), the higher figure was that from the old rules, which gave a basic pension of around £125, however many NI years over 30 we had already accumulated. But we've been lucky in that we now also get the opportunity to add more post-2016 years to bring our forecasts up to the new maximum of £175.   

I

barnstar2077

p00hsticks said:

barnstar2077 said:

Audaxer said:

SMcGill said:

10 years to contribute suggests I need to contribute for 10 years. It doesn’t say 10 years more years until I reach SPA which I agree would be a clearer statement!

I know what you mean, but I think the confusing thing is that you are looking at the NI record page, which shows that you would have to contribute for another 10 years if you are working for the next 10 years. As you said, the SP forecast page shows the full SP and says it cannot be improved. If for example you were 5 years short of contributions for the full SP it would give you an estimate based on your record to date and a forecast (for the full amount) if you do contribute for another 5 years, despite the NI record page showing 10 years.

I wish I had your SP forecast, as I am retired with 44 years of full contributions, but I still need to pay another 5 years voluntary NI contributions to get the full SP.

What is the reason you still need another five years please?  I am 43, started working as a YTS at 16, and it says I only need four more years.

Probably like me - they have spent most of their working lives 'contracted out', so that when our new State Pension 'starting amounts' were calculated in 2016 (under both the old and new rules), the higher figure was that from the old rules, which gave a basic pension of around £125, however many NI years over 30 we had already accumulated. But we've been lucky in that we now also get the opportunity to add more post-2016 years to bring our forecasts up to the new maximum of £175.   

I

I thought that too, but then they wouldn't have so many full years would they?

xylophone

 I am 43, started working as a YTS at 16, and it says I only need four more years.

You come under transitional arrangements because your working life straddles the old and new systems.

At 6/4/16 two calculations were done.

Old rules (assuming that you had 23 full years at that point)

(23/30 x £119.30) + (Additional State Pension -  ( (if applicable) Deduction for Contracting Out). 

New Rules

(23/35 x £155.65) - (if applicable) Contracted Out Pension Equivalent. 

Your "starting amount" was the higher of the two.

Let's suppose that your starting amount was  around £120.

This would have meant that you needed to contribute for  around another eight years to bring you up to a full new state pension.  Once having reached that point, you would be entitled to a full NSP at the then current rate once you reached State Pension Age (67/68) even if you paid no more contributions.

If you continued to work beyond  those eight years (and earned the appropriate amount) you would still have to pay NI contributions while under SPA even though you would not be adding to your  state pension. 

You could say that in your case, 31 years  gives you a full NSP.

If your nephews start work at age 21, they will need 35 years contributions or credits to receive a full NSP at State Pension Age which for them could be over age 70.

Audaxer

barnstar2077 said:

p00hsticks said:

barnstar2077 said:

Audaxer said:

SMcGill said:

10 years to contribute suggests I need to contribute for 10 years. It doesn’t say 10 years more years until I reach SPA which I agree would be a clearer statement!

I know what you mean, but I think the confusing thing is that you are looking at the NI record page, which shows that you would have to contribute for another 10 years if you are working for the next 10 years. As you said, the SP forecast page shows the full SP and says it cannot be improved. If for example you were 5 years short of contributions for the full SP it would give you an estimate based on your record to date and a forecast (for the full amount) if you do contribute for another 5 years, despite the NI record page showing 10 years.

I wish I had your SP forecast, as I am retired with 44 years of full contributions, but I still need to pay another 5 years voluntary NI contributions to get the full SP.

What is the reason you still need another five years please?  I am 43, started working as a YTS at 16, and it says I only need four more years.

Probably like me - they have spent most of their working lives 'contracted out', so that when our new State Pension 'starting amounts' were calculated in 2016 (under both the old and new rules), the higher figure was that from the old rules, which gave a basic pension of around £125, however many NI years over 30 we had already accumulated. But we've been lucky in that we now also get the opportunity to add more post-2016 years to bring our forecasts up to the new maximum of £175.   

I

I thought that too, but then they wouldn't have so many full years would they?

Yes, I do have 44 years of full contributions as they started in 1975.

molerat

barnstar2077 said:

p00hsticks said:

barnstar2077 said:

Audaxer said:

SMcGill said:

10 years to contribute suggests I need to contribute for 10 years. It doesn’t say 10 years more years until I reach SPA which I agree would be a clearer statement!

I know what you mean, but I think the confusing thing is that you are looking at the NI record page, which shows that you would have to contribute for another 10 years if you are working for the next 10 years. As you said, the SP forecast page shows the full SP and says it cannot be improved. If for example you were 5 years short of contributions for the full SP it would give you an estimate based on your record to date and a forecast (for the full amount) if you do contribute for another 5 years, despite the NI record page showing 10 years.

I wish I had your SP forecast, as I am retired with 44 years of full contributions, but I still need to pay another 5 years voluntary NI contributions to get the full SP.

What is the reason you still need another five years please?  I am 43, started working as a YTS at 16, and it says I only need four more years.

Probably like me - they have spent most of their working lives 'contracted out', so that when our new State Pension 'starting amounts' were calculated in 2016 (under both the old and new rules), the higher figure was that from the old rules, which gave a basic pension of around £125, however many NI years over 30 we had already accumulated. But we've been lucky in that we now also get the opportunity to add more post-2016 years to bring our forecasts up to the new maximum of £175.   

I

I thought that too, but then they wouldn't have so many full years would they?

"Years" are years that full NI contributions have been made or credited. You can have 40+ years but only 30 or 35 were counted for the 2016 starting amount then any COPE amount would be deducted from the 35 year amount.  I have 42 years, 39 at 2016, but ran out of time to build up the full pension amount.

GazzaBloom

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

We have checked via Gov website what her state pension entitlement will be and her NI record and she will be entitled to full state pension less contracted out amount which she will receive through private pension

No-one else's  forecast has ever said that and I doubt very much hers does.

You need to check it again and read past the headline £175.20 to be certain of what she has actually accrued to date (usually shown to 5 April 2020 at the moment) and whether any further years are necessary to reach £175.20.

If she does need 35 years it is pure coincidence as the standard 35 years rules do not apply to your wife.

OK then what part of this am I misunderstanding? This is my record:

“You can get your State Pension on 8 March 2034. Your forecast is

£175.20 a week

£761.81 a month, £9,141.69 a year

Your forecast

• is not a guarantee and is based on the current law
• is based on your National Insurance record up to 5 April 2020
• does not include any increase due to inflation

£175.20 is the most you can get

You cannot improve your forecast any more.

You’ve been in a contracted-out pension scheme

Like most people, you were contracted out of part of the State Pension.

Contracted Out Pension Equivalent (COPE)

Your COPE estimate is£27.36 a week.

This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government.

In most cases the private pension scheme you were contracted out to:

• will include an amount equal to the COPE amount
• may not individually identify the COPE amount

The total amount of pension paid by your workplace or personal pension schemes will depend on the scheme and on any investment choices.”

So, unless my O level English is failing me, or my IQ has suddenly dropped, I read that as I am due full state pension, cannot improve it with further NI contributions and I will get the £175.20 per week less £27.36 a week which wil paid through private pension as that is the contracted out amount.

This is prety much the same for my wife except her COPE amount is lower.

So, as my original question if I or she stopped working now would I get full state pension or are there any other factors that could affect it?

Dazed_and_C0nfused

So, I read that as I am sue full state pension, cannot improve it with further NI contributions and I will get £27.36 a week of my state pension paid through private pension as that os the contracted out amount.

I really have no idea how you are reading that from the forecast you have quoted.

What is it about this statement that you don't understand?

Your COPE estimate is £27.36 a week.
This will not affect your State Pension forecast. The COPE amount is paid as part of your other pension schemes, not by the government.

If you stopped work now you would receive £175.20/week starting in 2034.  The £175.20 would be increased by any annual inflation proofing (currently the triple lock).

For example after April 2021 your forecast will be updated to show your forecast amount as £179.60.  Having paid another years NIC won't change that.