Major Problem

greatcrested

Lover_of_Lycra said:

greatcrested said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Slithery said:

Due to the lack of gas safety certificate at the beginning of the tenancy then as long as the rent is being paid the LL can now never legally evict.
Change the locks and you have nothing to worry about.

That's not actually true.  In the case Trecarrell House Ltd v Rouncefield [2020] the conclusion was that a landlord’s failure to provide a tenant with a valid gas safety certificate prior to their occupation of a property does not prevent a landlord from serving a section 21 notice, provided the certificate has been sent to the tenant prior to the landlord serving the section 21 notice.

That's not what the case decided.

In that case, a valid GSR did exist at the start of the tenancy, and the court decided that failure to provide it to the tenant at the time did not prevent a vakid S21 once the GSR was provided.

In this case, there never was a GSR at the start, and hence  it could never be provided to the the tenant, and hence (probably) no S21 could ever be valid. I say 'probably' because this scenrio has never yet been tested in a higher court.

I think you’re missing the point. @Slithery said that without a GSC at the start of the tenancy the landlord could never legally evict. That statement doesn’t hold true for a number of reasons. In the case of Trecarrel House Ltd v Rouncefield, as we’ve established, a GSC hadn’t been supplied at the start of the tenancy but that didn’t stop the landlord from using the Section 21 notice which is at odds with what @Slithery said as it was possible for the landlord in that case to legally evict.  We don’t know that the landlord in this thread never had a GSC, it does seem unlikely but we don’t know for sure but as the property is in Wales it’s academic. 

If slithery is right that there was never a GSR at the start, then he's also right the LL can (probably) never serve a valid S21.

If there was a GSR at the start, then yes a S21 can be served.

It's unclear here, but the OP said " then discovered no Gas Safety certificate has been on it for at least the time entire rental period."

Indicative, but unreliable....

Anyway - the law here's a mess!

[Deleted User]

greatcrested said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

greatcrested said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Slithery said:

Due to the lack of gas safety certificate at the beginning of the tenancy then as long as the rent is being paid the LL can now never legally evict.
Change the locks and you have nothing to worry about.

That's not actually true.  In the case Trecarrell House Ltd v Rouncefield [2020] the conclusion was that a landlord’s failure to provide a tenant with a valid gas safety certificate prior to their occupation of a property does not prevent a landlord from serving a section 21 notice, provided the certificate has been sent to the tenant prior to the landlord serving the section 21 notice.

That's not what the case decided.

In that case, a valid GSR did exist at the start of the tenancy, and the court decided that failure to provide it to the tenant at the time did not prevent a vakid S21 once the GSR was provided.

In this case, there never was a GSR at the start, and hence  it could never be provided to the the tenant, and hence (probably) no S21 could ever be valid. I say 'probably' because this scenrio has never yet been tested in a higher court.

I think you’re missing the point. @Slithery said that without a GSC at the start of the tenancy the landlord could never legally evict. That statement doesn’t hold true for a number of reasons. In the case of Trecarrel House Ltd v Rouncefield, as we’ve established, a GSC hadn’t been supplied at the start of the tenancy but that didn’t stop the landlord from using the Section 21 notice which is at odds with what @Slithery said as it was possible for the landlord in that case to legally evict.  We don’t know that the landlord in this thread never had a GSC, it does seem unlikely but we don’t know for sure but as the property is in Wales it’s academic. 

If slithery is right that there was never a GSR at the start, then he's also right the LL can (probably) never serve a valid S21.

If there was a GSR at the start, then yes a S21 can be served.

It's unclear here, but the OP said " then discovered no Gas Safety certificate has been on it for at least the time entire rental period."

Indicative, but unreliable....

Anyway - the law here's a mess!

The Deregulation Act (2015) does not apply to Wales.  Lack of a GSC does not prevent a valid Section 21 being issued in Wales. Not being registered with Rent Smart Wales would invalidate the notice though.