Please help! Is this tiling a good enough standard?

silverwhistle

I know some people come on here to get people to agree to their moans. In your case I can heartily concur that that tiling is awful, and in no way professional! That won't help you, but at least reassure you that taking action is entirely reasonable if you actually paid people as professionals to do that work.

shinytop

OP, that looks bad and with tiling, there is no second chance. I am not an expert but IMO the only way to fix that is to remove all the tiles and start again. If the cement is dry the tiles can't be re-used.  

If you are not happy and the tradesman won't refund the whole amount, including materials, then you could take them to court through the small claims process.  We did this with a decorating job that was paid in advance and we got all the money back.   It was a lot easier and less daunting than I expected.  You'll need to document everything with plenty pictures and give them the opportunity to pay you before going to court.  Of course, even if you win they may not have any money to pay you but it's worth a try.  

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/small-claims-court/

Jeepers_Creepers

Ok, it's not the worst tiling I've ever seen, but it is in no way a 'professional' job. And the quote didn't even include the tiles?! Lawdie.

Almost certainly you would have done a better job yourself; you would have taken the time and technique to get all the tile spacings correct, and you wouldn't have laid any tile that was chipped. That is so elementary that it immediately puts these guys in the 'strictly amateur' group.

Added to that is the carelessness of the grouting and - more worryingly - the hairline cracks that have formed in some of them alongside the tiles; that doesn't bode well for longevity.

Why would grout crack? A number of possibilities I can think of; too weak a mix which shrunk too far on setting. Wrong grout used that has no flexibility. Too much movement in the floor (again, flexible grout should be used or floor strengthened). Levelling compound had not fully set and was still shrinking when the tiles were laid.

Why would they lay a tile with a chip in it?! No rational reason on the planet for that one; they simply thought they could get away with it. That's the standard of professionalism you are dealing with here. Mull that over in your head for a bit; "Hmm, this tile is chipped - what shall I do?" "Just lay it, mate - they won't notice...".

Poor quality cuts with rough edges - no excuse as 'pros' have access to all the correct tools such as a water-bath-diamond-cutters (or whatever they're called) that make perfect cuts. Rough cuts along the outside perimeter are 'fine' provided they will be fully covered by the skirting boards - otherwise, no.

My concern now is how they intend to 'fix' this. I suspect they will smear a further layer of grout over to fill the cracks. Depending on the cause of them cracking in the first place, this will not work. Chipped tile? Needs breaking, removing and replacing; I wonder how invisibly they'll do this... Poor tile spacing? break, remove, replace. I doubt they have any intention of doing this - if they did, the floor would look as tho' a bomb hit it with all the breaking up of tiles and the scraping away of the adhesive underneath; a patchwork hell.

These guys should NOT be putting themselves forward as tiling professionals. They just should not. They are not. You may have a case for not allowing them near your floor again; if you can demonstrate that they are of such poor skill as to be simply not up to the job, then that is an option.

See what CAB suggests. I think you should be put right back to square one where either yourselves or true professionals do the whole job properly. That will mean not only a full refund, but compensation for all the wasted tiles. I suspect for this you'll need a surveyor or similar to assess their work and write a report. But see what CAB says.

(Is the tiling outfit part of any trade organisation?)

BananaRepublic

The OP may well need to commission a report from a a professional. I got two, at no charge, one from a tiler, one from a project manager for a builder, but I voluntarily paid £100 to the tiler. I don’t know if he could go to court without a report. Perhaps he can use photos as proof as any sane person can see it’s an awful job, but the judge might ask for a report. Trading Standards or CAB should advise. Unfortunately my bodgers were on a Trading Standards approved scheme, so TS took over and were a bit useless. 

Jeepers_Creepers

IOTNBO, do you have Legal Protection on your house insurance? If so, that's where to go for advice and possible litigation...

Everyone can make a mistake, a slip, an error, which is why you are normally expected to allow tradesfolk an opportunity to put things right. This doesn't - to me - fall into that category; it wasn't an accident, an off-day, a slip, an oops. It was either someone completely out of their depth, or someone devoid of the necessary skill, or else someone who didn't give a damn. I'm not sure which is worse.

So, if the same folk are thinking of coming back to sort/redo this, I'd have serious reservations.

I have heard of incidences where the 'main' person in a company was busy on another job and sent a second-rate assistant to do the work (not tiling), and that at least was the 'reason', and one that could be sorted by the right person redoing the work. But if this is 'it', if these are 'the guys', then I'd not want them back. I'd hope that Small Claims would support this, but i think you'd need a pro report.

If you do let them back to 'sort' it as they say they want to do, then they need ground rules put down first - your expectations. They ain't going to like this, because I bet all they have in mind is a wipe-over with grout and other bodges. I think the way to approach this is to ask them "What caused the cracks?" and "How will you fix it?!". "Why did you lay a chipped tile?!" "Why are the grout lines different sizes when all the tiles are exactly the same size?!" Ie - put them on the back foot. Make them answer for their work.

pinkshoes

The £1500 was just labour and not the cost of the tiles?!?!?!?! 

OK, so it is not the most awful tiling I have ever seen, but it certainly isn't a professional job that you would pay for. 100% not acceptable. 

I would be wanting them to replace the tiles and either do it again professionally themselves, or they pay for someone else to lay them.

I'm not actually sure how they got them so wonky and uneven. How long have they been doing tiling for?!?! I have tiled 2 kitchens and a bathroom and could do better than that. 

Itsokaytonotbeokay

Thank you everyone.

So so far... he's been online many times but has started ignoring our messages. I think possibly he was planning to come back and grout over things, but perhaps when I asked 'what are you planning to do? How long will it take? And what time will you be getting here?' he realised this was more than a grout over job to rectify. Possibly why he's avoiding us now.

I have called 3 times and left voicemails. I have spoken with the company who we bought the tiles from who confirmed the work is of a standard that requires them to be pulled up and redone.

I have spoken with citizens advice (CAB) who have said we have to offer them a 1st tier remedy where they are offered the chance to repeat performance and rectify their mistakes. I questioned if this still applied as we bought the tiles but he didn't seem to know what I meant and said we have to offer this. A bit frustrating as we're pretty terrified if he goes near them he may damage the subfloor and UFH below either due to incompetence or purposefully for making him come back... CAB said they have to do this in a reasonable timeframe and not causing significant inconvenience to us. As we're meant to be painting the kitchen right now ready for the installation of the kitchen w/c 11th Jan, this is already pretty inconvenient...

If they do not do the 1st tier remedy, we can offer 2nd tier remedy which is where we obtain 2 independent quotes to find out how much it will cost to remedy. This would mean getting our money back and then charging damages on top for the lost tiles, new tiles and extra for removing the tiles. 

They also recommended offering that we are willing to go through ADR.

I have my letter drafted and I have a tiler on the way to quote us for remedying the work. Found this one on google, not checkatrade, and many more reviews, seems much more legit. He reassured us it is possible to take them up and re-do. The problem now is finding all the money (argh..!?) and hoping the kitchen company will delay the kitchen delivery...

If we take them to small claims, is there a chance they can just say they don't have the money and we end up out of pocket anyway? We could barely afford £1,500 in the first place, this is gonna be another £800 for tiles, plus the cost of taking up and re-doing. Eeeek who on earth could afford that..!?

As they didn't offer our pre-contract and cancellation rights, CAB have reported them to trading standards.

Itsokaytonotbeokay

FreeBear said:

HarryDavies01 said: That looks awful!

Very amateurish and now where near acceptable. Did the guy use any tile spacers, or just slapped them on by eye ?

Are these large format tiles (300x300mm or larger) ?

If so, he should have been using a tile leveling system which would have got a near perfect fit without any lippage.

The tiles are 800x800. I'll add that to the original post. What is a tile levelling system? He had what looked like spacers in between when doing it.

We also asked for 1mm grout lines and have found that they are 2-4mm, with one totally smudged which is more like 8mm!

FreeBear

Tiles that big certainly benefit from using a tile leveling system - Here are reviews of just a few on the market - https://10warriors.co.uk/best-tile-levelling-systems/

If the tiles have been back buttered (a layer of adhesive applied to the tiles as well as the floor), taking them up without breaking is gong to be near on impossible. You may well have to resign yourself to buying a full set of new ones. Also, a 1mm gap is usually way too small. For floor tiles, 3-5mm  is the norm, and the bigger the tile, the greater the gap. A 1mm space would be difficult to get the grout all the way in - Not impossible, and I would contemplate an icing bag or grout gun to make sure of full penetration.

bob_a_builder

Tile leveling   .... 
A picture helps  ( ok its a wall but you get the picture )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWmQ3PXe-H4