Landlord Rent Guarantee.

AskAsk

jubjub said:

Thanks eddddy. The point is that I have used them for about 17 years and I had at the start documentation from them that they have used an insurance company. It has now transpired that they no longer use an insurance company and are underwriting it themselves but I have not received any terms and conditions at all. It is only in the last few days that it has come to light that the rental guarantee has been missed being charged for the past 3 years to me and they are now asking for back payments which I do not agree with due to them underwriting it themselves and not ever having had terms and conditions. Also, since the last payment I was charged they have increased the amount of which I had no knowledge of either. They are demanding payment stating it is due because I was covered. Where do I stand with this? 

i think you will have to pay the back payment as they would claim they underwrote the risk.  you would have a case against the increase if it was not communicated to you and it was not in the original documentation.  how long did you pay the premium before it stopped or did they forget to bill you from the start?

jubjub

i think you will have to pay the back payment as they would claim they underwrote the risk.  you would have a case against the increase if it was not communicated to you and it was not in the original documentation.  how long did you pay the premium before it stopped or did they forget to bill you from the start?

They hadn't taken any payments since August 2017 due to an "administrative error" and it was apparently my fault for not noticing it!

AskAsk

jubjub said:

They hadn't taken any payments since August 2017 due to an "administrative error" and it was apparently my fault for not noticing it!

i have the same problem with the council at the moment, sending me a bill for service charge dating back 5 years as they said it was an error in their system.  when i looked into it, i would have to pay the backdated charges so i do think you will need to pay.  your argument may be in the increase but if this is expected or reasonable, they will be awarded the increase.

if you have a legal helpline with your home insurance or if you have AA silver benefits, you can call the helpline and ask where you stand.  they will be able to help you.

dimbo61

And yet I think the Letting agents are having a laugh ?
Times are tough for many lettings agents and this sounds like a great idea.
Off course we would have paid out Thousands of pounds in lost rent since 2017 even though you never paid any premiums.
Like life assurance if you don't pay your not covered.
Just ask them for the documents you signed to BUY this rent guarantee insurance.
Ask them for the name of the Insurance company that provides the cover ?
If they say they are providing the cover tell them to provide the paperwork and documentation from the FCA to prove they can sell Insurance.
You were never covered and would have received sweet nothing had your tenants stopped paying the rent.

jubjub

dimbo61 said:

And yet I think the Letting agents are having a laugh ?
Times are tough for many lettings agents and this sounds like a great idea.
Off course we would have paid out Thousands of pounds in lost rent since 2017 even though you never paid any premiums.
Like life assurance if you don't pay your not covered.
Just ask them for the documents you signed to BUY this rent guarantee insurance.
Ask them for the name of the Insurance company that provides the cover ?
If they say they are providing the cover tell them to provide the paperwork and documentation from the FCA to prove they can sell Insurance.
You were never covered and would have received sweet nothing had your tenants stopped paying the rent.

I did ask them for the old policies, this is when it came to light that they were doing on their own account and taking the risk themselves. my point being that you can't just decide to set yourself up as an insurance company in effect by offering what is for all intents an insurance policy?

AdrianC

jubjub said:

Thanks eddddy. The point is that I have used them for about 17 years and I had at the start documentation from them that they have used an insurance company. It has now transpired that they no longer use an insurance company and are underwriting it themselves but I have not received any terms and conditions at all. It is only in the last few days that it has come to light that the rental guarantee has been missed being charged for the past 3 years to me and they are now asking for back payments which I do not agree with due to them underwriting it themselves and not ever having had terms and conditions. Also, since the last payment I was charged they have increased the amount of which I had no knowledge of either. They are demanding payment stating it is due because I was covered. Where do I stand with this? 

Outside another letting agent's office.

AskAsk

jubjub said:

dimbo61 said:

And yet I think the Letting agents are having a laugh ?
Times are tough for many lettings agents and this sounds like a great idea.
Off course we would have paid out Thousands of pounds in lost rent since 2017 even though you never paid any premiums.
Like life assurance if you don't pay your not covered.
Just ask them for the documents you signed to BUY this rent guarantee insurance.
Ask them for the name of the Insurance company that provides the cover ?
If they say they are providing the cover tell them to provide the paperwork and documentation from the FCA to prove they can sell Insurance.
You were never covered and would have received sweet nothing had your tenants stopped paying the rent.

I did ask them for the old policies, this is when it came to light that they were doing on their own account and taking the risk themselves. my point being that you can't just decide to set yourself up as an insurance company in effect by offering what is for all intents an insurance policy?

i believe they can.  they are not selling insurance policies to the public and so would not be subject to FCA regulations.  they are saying to you that they will cover the rent themselves and they had done this through re-insuring the risk with an insurer, but they had decided not to do so and would have paid it out of their own pocket instead.

whether or not this is is reality doesn't really matter as you could have sued them if they didn't cough up, although they could have argued if you did sue them that you were not paying your premiums and so they are not liable.  it can be a question of whether the egg comes before the chicken, lol.

you could fight it as the law is never logical, but you would need to take formal legal advice.

eddddy

jubjub said:
I did ask them for the old policies, this is when it came to light that they were doing on their own account and taking the risk themselves. my point being that you can't just decide to set yourself up as an insurance company in effect by offering what is for all intents an insurance policy?

FWIW, if they call it a "Rent Guarantee Scheme", "Rent Guarantee Plan" or some other description which doesn't use the word "insurance", they can probably get away without it being regulated.

Whether or not you owe them the money depends on what you agreed to 17 years ago (or whenever). 

For example, did you agree to paying for a specific insurance policy with a specific insurer with renewal each year? (If so, you didn't agree to paying for their in-house scheme.)

Or did you agree to something more generic, like paying for their recommended rent guarantee scheme - which might change from time to time. (If so, it would be harder to argue that you shouldn't pay.)

dimbo61

Do you have legal cover with your landlord insurance or home insurance ?
I would speak to them first and tell the Lettings Agents you won't be paying back dated premiums for something you never had or signed up for.
Lettings agents have no formal training or registration body and a number have gone out of business owing thousands of pounds to Tenants and Landlords

[Deleted User]

Personally I'd argue that you agreed to pay insurance premiums to go to an insurance agency to cover unpaid rent.  You did not agree to pay an informal scheme for which you never received terms and conditions, nor were notified the insurance system had changed.  But I also agree its time to find an LA with rent guarantee insurance or find your own rent guarantee insurance.

And check your accounting practices.  Really you should have noticed this wasn't being asked for unless you normally don't check invoices but just blindly pay them.  Somehow this slipped through and could have been major if a tenant hadn't paid rent and you had to wait x months for the eviction process to complete.