Can the RK still name the driver after a lost POPLA appeal?

Beano456

Hi guys. I recently lost an appeal against Carflow and received the POPLA rejection yesterday. Should have come here sooner but what’s done is done. I appealed as keeper having received a postal NtK from a carpark operated by ANPR – no driver details have been divulged.  As predicted I have now received the gloating email from Carflow informing that the £100 charge remains outstanding and must be paid within 28 days of the POPLA decision.

My question now is, as the driver has never been disclosed and the appeal based solely as the RK, can I still at this stage give the name & address of the driver to Carflow and would this pull the RK out of the situation and reset the procedure back to them pursuing the driver – with the option of the driver either paying the reduced £60 or going through the appeals & POPLA again?

Coupon-mad

My question now is, as the driver has never been disclosed and the appeal based solely as the RK, can I still at this stage give the name & address of the driver to Carflow and would this pull the RK out of the situation. 

Yes.  Helpfully, the BPA know that our interpretation is correct, because they published a legal piece about it in Parking News recently:

http://portfolio.cpl.co.uk/Parking-News/395/26/

and reset the procedure back to them pursuing the driver – with the option of the driver either paying the reduced £60 or going through the appeals & POPLA again?

They can only pursue the driver and must issue a PCN to that person instead, because where there was no windscreen PCN, that person has had no information of a parking charge yet (at all).  Whether they'd let the person appeal all over again to POPLA is another ball game!  IMHO they should because this is a different individual who must be afforded the same rights and remedies. 

In practice - let us know on this thread!

Umkomaas

Is the driver in any better shape to win this at POPLA than you were?

Was the driver a 'genuine customer' (ie has proof - receipts, bank/cc statements?). If so he/she needs to take a screenshot of the Carflow website description for retailers about how their ANPR system works:

Benefits of the system:

• We supply, install and maintain all elements of the ANPR system, allowing site owners to concentrate on their core business.
• Increased availability of spaces leads to greater footfall and increased turnover for retailers.
• Efficient enforcement in paid parking environments maximises parking revenue.
• A reduction in management costs leads to increased operating margins for site owners.
• The system is barrier-free, making parking simpler and improving traffic flow and customer experience. 
• Our statistical reports on parking activity can help our clients manage their businesses more efficiently.
• Our appeals and cancellation policies ensure that genuine customers are never penalised.
• The system can be operational 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

' ....... are never penalised'

You can try to pass liability to the driver at any time up to a court stage, but whether Carflow are going to play ball without resistance is debatable.  You may need to involve the BPA to try to get them to assist.  

How come you lost a POPLA appeal to a car park operator we see very little of. Can you let us have a copy of your appeal to Carflow, to POPLA and the POPLA assessors response - but pleeeease put some paragraphs into it to make it readable (yes, I know how they send it to you!). 

Alternatively, you could simply ignore Carflow and see what their next move is. They do occasionally issue court proceedings. 

D_P_Dance

 Whether they'd let the person appeal all over again to POPLA is another ball game!  

Surely, If they want to get their money  they have no option but to do so.  

Coupon-mad

Nope, we've seen drivers getting court claims where that driver had no PCN.  Pretty stupid because that then adds a decent defence point...

Beano456

Thanks CM, and for the link which clarifies it. So long as the driver is named before proceedings are started. I'm sure Carflow will not be happy having to go through it again with the driver - if popla if offered and driver appeals, will the ppc have to pay another popla fee? Yes will keep you updated, cheers.

Coupon-mad

if popla if offered and driver appeals, will the ppc have to pay another popla fee?

Yes, which is why they won't like it.

Beano456

Umkomaas said:

Is the driver in any better shape to win this at POPLA than you were?

Was the driver a 'genuine customer' (ie has proof - receipts, bank/cc statements?). If so he/she needs to take a screenshot of the Carflow website description for retailers about how their ANPR system works:

Benefits of the system:

• We supply, install and maintain all elements of the ANPR system, allowing site owners to concentrate on their core business.
• Increased availability of spaces leads to greater footfall and increased turnover for retailers.
• Efficient enforcement in paid parking environments maximises parking revenue.
• A reduction in management costs leads to increased operating margins for site owners.
• The system is barrier-free, making parking simpler and improving traffic flow and customer experience. 
• Our statistical reports on parking activity can help our clients manage their businesses more efficiently.
• Our appeals and cancellation policies ensure that genuine customers are never penalised.
• The system can be operational 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

' ....... are never penalised'

You can try to pass liability to the driver at any time up to a court stage, but whether Carflow are going to play ball without resistance is debatable.  You may need to involve the BPA to try to get them to assist.  

How come you lost a POPLA appeal to a car park operator we see very little of. Can you let us have a copy of your appeal to Carflow, to POPLA and the POPLA assessors response - but pleeeease put some paragraphs into it to make it readable (yes, I know how they send it to you!). 

Alternatively, you could simply ignore Carflow and see what their next move is. They do occasionally issue court proceedings. 

Yes this was a store pcn (rooftop carpark for Wilko store in Leek. I did contact wilko but got a generic fob-off reply saying we have no control over parking. With what I now know I probably should have done things different but will post up all details later, cheers.

D_P_Dance

You can try to pass liability to the driver at any time up to a court stage, but whether Carflow are going to play ball without resistance is debatable. 

The can resist as much as they like, the law is on te OP's side.

Umkomaas

D_P_Dance said:

You can try to pass liability to the driver at any time up to a court stage, but whether Carflow are going to play ball without resistance is debatable. 

The can resist as much as they like, the law is on te OP's side.

But he may need to mount the asss to make it go the way he wants! 😊

Beano456

D_P_Dance said:

You can try to pass liability to the driver at any time up to a court stage, but whether Carflow are going to play ball without resistance is debatable. 

The can resist as much as they like, the law is on te OP's side.

Part of me is thinking that wouldn't be a bad situation if Carflow refuse to accept driver details and continue to pursue me, at least it leaves the driver out of this and strengthens any defence should they issue a claim against me as RK.