Going from WTC to Universal Credit can I put my excess savings into an ISA or give to my children?

TELLIT01

Beachcomber372 said:

poppy12345 said:

Beachcomber372 said:

andrewmp said:

You're not claiming universal credit now and have no intention of ever claiming. If you feel like saving for your kids in a junior ISA then you're doing nothing wrong at all.

If, in future, you happen to be moved to UC then money in a junior ISA isn't classed as capital.

I seem to be getting mixed messages here. It would seem unfair if I could'nt give some money to my kids to give them a head start because surely the Working Families Tax Credits was created to aid families and their children?

I'm not sure why you think you're getting mixed messages, it's quite clear. At the moment you're claiming tax credits, so savings don't affect this. In the future when you claim Universal Credit, giving your money away, even to children will be classed as deprivation of capital, although the first year after you claim your savings will be disregarded.

So, if I put money into say Junior isa's or junior premium bonds now before the transition to Universal Credit that would be OK?

If you put money into Junior ISA or Premium Bonds now, and don't have cause to claim UC for a reasonable time, it would be near impossible for DWP to prove that you did so in order to be able to claim Income Related benefits.  By 'reasonable time' I would suggest 12 months or more.  When I worked on benefit processing, admittedly that was 5 years ago, we only asked for bank statements going back 6 months.

Beachcomber372

TELLIT01 said:

Beachcomber372 said:

poppy12345 said:

Beachcomber372 said:

andrewmp said:

You're not claiming universal credit now and have no intention of ever claiming. If you feel like saving for your kids in a junior ISA then you're doing nothing wrong at all.

If, in future, you happen to be moved to UC then money in a junior ISA isn't classed as capital.

I seem to be getting mixed messages here. It would seem unfair if I could'nt give some money to my kids to give them a head start because surely the Working Families Tax Credits was created to aid families and their children?

I'm not sure why you think you're getting mixed messages, it's quite clear. At the moment you're claiming tax credits, so savings don't affect this. In the future when you claim Universal Credit, giving your money away, even to children will be classed as deprivation of capital, although the first year after you claim your savings will be disregarded.

So, if I put money into say Junior isa's or junior premium bonds now before the transition to Universal Credit that would be OK?

If you put money into Junior ISA or Premium Bonds now, and don't have cause to claim UC for a reasonable time, it would be near impossible for DWP to prove that you did so in order to be able to claim Income Related benefits.  By 'reasonable time' I would suggest 12 months or more.  When I worked on benefit processing, admittedly that was 5 years ago, we only asked for bank statements going back 6 months.

So let's say for example if someone was found to have disposed of capital in order to get benefits would that person then not get any benefits at all and be left to starve and become homeless because they could not pay their rent?

poppy12345

Beachcomber372 said:

TELLIT01 said:

Beachcomber372 said:

poppy12345 said:

Beachcomber372 said:

andrewmp said:

You're not claiming universal credit now and have no intention of ever claiming. If you feel like saving for your kids in a junior ISA then you're doing nothing wrong at all.

If, in future, you happen to be moved to UC then money in a junior ISA isn't classed as capital.

I seem to be getting mixed messages here. It would seem unfair if I could'nt give some money to my kids to give them a head start because surely the Working Families Tax Credits was created to aid families and their children?

I'm not sure why you think you're getting mixed messages, it's quite clear. At the moment you're claiming tax credits, so savings don't affect this. In the future when you claim Universal Credit, giving your money away, even to children will be classed as deprivation of capital, although the first year after you claim your savings will be disregarded.

So, if I put money into say Junior isa's or junior premium bonds now before the transition to Universal Credit that would be OK?

If you put money into Junior ISA or Premium Bonds now, and don't have cause to claim UC for a reasonable time, it would be near impossible for DWP to prove that you did so in order to be able to claim Income Related benefits.  By 'reasonable time' I would suggest 12 months or more.  When I worked on benefit processing, admittedly that was 5 years ago, we only asked for bank statements going back 6 months.

So let's say for example if someone was found to have disposed of capital in order to get benefits would that person then not get any benefits at all and be left to starve and become homeless because they could not pay their rent?

Very likely yes because people can't expect to either give their money away or spend it needlessly in order to claim a means tested benefit because that's not how it works.

KatrinaWaves

Beachcomber372 said:

TELLIT01 said:

Beachcomber372 said:

poppy12345 said:

Beachcomber372 said:

andrewmp said:

You're not claiming universal credit now and have no intention of ever claiming. If you feel like saving for your kids in a junior ISA then you're doing nothing wrong at all.

If, in future, you happen to be moved to UC then money in a junior ISA isn't classed as capital.

I seem to be getting mixed messages here. It would seem unfair if I could'nt give some money to my kids to give them a head start because surely the Working Families Tax Credits was created to aid families and their children?

I'm not sure why you think you're getting mixed messages, it's quite clear. At the moment you're claiming tax credits, so savings don't affect this. In the future when you claim Universal Credit, giving your money away, even to children will be classed as deprivation of capital, although the first year after you claim your savings will be disregarded.

So, if I put money into say Junior isa's or junior premium bonds now before the transition to Universal Credit that would be OK?

If you put money into Junior ISA or Premium Bonds now, and don't have cause to claim UC for a reasonable time, it would be near impossible for DWP to prove that you did so in order to be able to claim Income Related benefits.  By 'reasonable time' I would suggest 12 months or more.  When I worked on benefit processing, admittedly that was 5 years ago, we only asked for bank statements going back 6 months.

So let's say for example if someone was found to have disposed of capital in order to get benefits would that person then not get any benefits at all and be left to starve and become homeless because they could not pay their rent?

They could ask the people they gave the money away to to give it back. They could sell the items that they wasted their benefits on to get it back. 

They would need to find a cheaper place to rent, use food banks or, god forbid, find a job with more hours/work two jobs. You won’t find sympathy here for people who deprive themselves of capital to get more benefits. It’s the most ‘shooting yourself in the foot’ thing you can do. If you need benefits then you cannot afford to gift money to people nor buy extravagant items to reduce your money. 

Beachcomber372

Thanks for all your replies.
I must admit I'm still undecided as what to do and obviously at the end of the day it's for me to decide and the answer is not straightforward.
It looks like the options are...
1. Put the money into a pension ( I am 52 self-employed and do not have a private pension).
OR
2. Put the money into children's Isa's or Children's premium bonds ( with the possible risk of being accused of disposal of capital).
OR
3. If and when the Tax Credits have been replaced by Universal Credits then simply live off the savings and not claim any benefits until my savings have depleted ( perhaps putting my savings into Premium Bonds and if I have any winnings my savings would last longer).
I would be interested to hear what others would consider in my situation?
I also hope my thread is proving useful to any one else in this situation.

calcotti

Beachcomber372 said:

I would be interested to hear what others would consider in my situation?

I would take benefits out of consideration. What do you want to do with the money?
If you want to give it to your children or put it in a pension you can do.
Managed migration to UC is far enough away that I don't think you need be too concerned by deprivation of capital questions  at that time. (but there is a slight risk).
More important is the short term - is there anything that might happen to cause you to have to move to Universal Credit? If your job is reasonably secure not withstanding current circumstances and only something completely unexpected would cause a move then again deprivation of capital may not be an issue.