Parking company randomly enforcing rules on a private estate

Uptown_Boy

They are the managers of the shared land - they may also be the freeholders, but covenants will make other freeholders / lessees liable to a service charge for the upkeep and maintenance of shared land and shared facilities.

However, unless the parking arrangement was already enshrined in the deeds / lease then they cannot unilaterally impose new parking restrictions - they need to have a consultation and vote as per the L&T Act. Said votes needs to be approved by at least 75% of voters, with no more than 10% objecting. (I'm not sure whether it is percentages of all eligible votes, or all votes cast - I think it's the former). I'll wager that they have not conducted such a consultation and vote and have therefore imposed the restrictions unlawfully.

Coupon-mad

We called Orbit and they want nothing to do with it. 

I'm sure they don't!  But this is their fault and they are allowing their contractor to interfere with your freehold rights, easements and grants and they failed to carry out the necessary consultation (I gave you the clue - section37 of the L&T Act has been discussed to death on this forum...read a few threads).

An inexpensive solicitors' letter on behalf of a group of you freeholders should focus their minds.  Read the case law.   K-Sultana Saeed v Plustrade is about a derogation from grant (taking away parking bays that were granted to residents).

D_P_Dance

UKPC have form, read these,

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

Also this

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP.

olczu

Thanks for all your help so far, I am familiarising myself with the L&T act.

I have found the following paragraph in our Land Registry:

Definitions
Adoptable Parking Spaces means any parking spaces within the Estate which are intended to be adopted

Rights granted for the benefit of the property
Capacity Rights and Easements

THE Property is transferred to the Transferee by the Transferor with the benefit of the following rights and easements advantages and privileges: -

(...)
9. The right, pending adoption, on a "first come, first served" basis, to park in the Adoptable Parking Spaces


What do you guys make of this? There are NO records of any parking companies or that parking will ever be enforced. This is the only paragraph that states anything about the free parking that was meant to be available.

Half_way

Ask Orbit why they are allowing an un regulated company to operate in their name,  as well as that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents, including any breaches of GDPR - and tell them that they must instruct their agents to cancel this so called parking charge notice(s) and see what they , Orbit come back with

Coupon-mad

Rights granted for the benefit of the property
Capacity Rights and Easements
THE Property is transferred to the Transferee by the Transferor with the benefit of the following rights and easements advantages and privileges: -
(...)
9. The right, pending adoption, on a "first come, first served" basis, to park in the Adoptable Parking Spaces

That's a right, granted as a benefit of your demised property and there is nothing about having to display a permit nor any other caveat.  You should be talking to other leaseholders and freeholders and get a solicitor to write a letter for you first thing in the New Year.  A consultation for half an hour is cheap and a letter isn't expensive.

Hope you are reading the Roger Davey case as well, it was linked for you to read by another poster.

You should get as many freehold and leasehold owners interested as you possibly can, first.  How about starting a Whatsapp group for the estate, putting notes in doors and/or on any communal noticeboard urging others to join you to put a stop to this nonsense.  You simply need a gate or barrier and some key fobs, not an ex-clamper thug firm targetting residents who have a right to park and were never even told about the unlawful new scheme.

If you don't get UKPC removed it will only get worse.  Get them kicked out.

KeithP

Adoptable Parking Spaces means any parking spaces within the Estate which are intended to be adopted

I wonder what that means?

Is it talking about parking spaces that are intended to be adopted by the local authority as part of the public highway? Has that 'adoption' taken place? Perhaps when all the signs disappeared earlier?

olczu

KeithP said:

Adoptable Parking Spaces means any parking spaces within the Estate which are intended to be adopted

I wonder what that means?

Is it talking about parking spaces that are intended to be adopted by the local authority as part of the public highway? Has that 'adoption' taken place? Perhaps when all the signs disappeared earlier?

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, Although in other paragraphs if they were speaking regarding water or electricity they always used something like this: 

(...) Electricity company
(...) Water company

It's like they are referring to a certain electricity/water company because they know someone will have to be our electricity/water provider. It's not used in the same way in the parking paragraph. 

Even IF the parking spaces were meant to be adopted by someone - it's a first come first served basis and we should have been informed anyway? It also does not state that these parking spaces would be enforced.

If there was an adoption then that means council must have taken over from UKPC, and not the other way round. At first there were UKPC sign everywhere and now you can only see 2 signs in the whole estate on our street. There are no signs that you require a permit of any kind when you enter the estate, no parking machines. Nothing except double yellow lines and a "Permit required" when you want to enter an underground car park designed for the apartments on the street next to ours (but that's been there since the beginning and doesn't apply to us)


EDIT

Looking at the whole site plan there is a crossed out circle on each of the public car parks and in the legend it says "Areas to be maintained". But these circles are in the exact same spot where we can find the trees between the parking spaces, this might be the maintenance of the trees as a part of the service charge

olczu

Coupon-mad said:

Rights granted for the benefit of the property
Capacity Rights and Easements
THE Property is transferred to the Transferee by the Transferor with the benefit of the following rights and easements advantages and privileges: -
(...)
9. The right, pending adoption, on a "first come, first served" basis, to park in the Adoptable Parking Spaces

That's a right, granted as a benefit of your demised property and there is nothing about having to display a permit nor any other caveat.  You should be talking to other leaseholders and freeholders and get a solicitor to write a letter for you first thing in the New Year.  A consultation for half an hour is cheap and a letter isn't expensive.

Hope you are reading the Roger Davey case as well, it was linked for you to read by another poster.

You should get as many freehold and leasehold owners interested as you possibly can, first.  How about starting a Whatsapp group for the estate, putting notes in doors and/or on any communal noticeboard urging others to join you to put a stop to this nonsense.  You simply need a gate or barrier and some key fobs, not an ex-clamper thug firm targetting residents who have a right to park and were never even told about the unlawful new scheme.

If you don't get UKPC removed it will only get worse.  Get them kicked out.

Yeah I'm also going through the case files, thanks.

So to get people interested and before I send this off to the solicitor, would I need to get people's signatures that they agree with me or how would that work? Can I also take this further? Sure we can get UKPC kicked out but if they could pay for trespassing or harassment that would be even better.

Should we stay away from the car parks for now or continue parking there and get a ticket every 2 days? Also what do you mean it could get worse, can they do anything else since they don't really have a right to charge us for parking?

Coupon-mad

They'll issue shedloads of PCNs then sue you and it would be up to a Judge if he/she agreed with you.  A horribly harassing situation for you to live with.

I would not risk more, but if you are going to have to pay to park elsewhere then keep proof and receipts and ask the solicitor to point out you have suffered actual loss, and that you intend to follow the cue of Roger Davey v UKPC and charge UKPC for an emergency injunction (if the solicitor agrees).  You don't need other neighbours on board but going to a solicitor on your own, if it ends up needing an injunction or other legal work, isn't going to be cheap and your voice would be soooo much louder if it was a multiple voice shouting at the landowners.