PCM - parked in own residents bay -residents bay permit fallen down leaving visitor pass on display

kat345

We received a parking ticket for parking in our own parking bay... unfortunately the 'bay permit' had fallen down but the visitor permit linked to our bay remained.

Appealed to pcm... rejected

Now have sent following message to management company 
I am emailing in regards to the parking agency pcm used on #### we are aware that Preim do not wish to be contacted in regards to the parking company however we have been left with no choice but to contact for support as we feel they are not co-operating with residents.

Yourselves (Preim) sourced and brought in the contractor pcm to resolve the ongoing issues of residents having non residents and visitors parking in resident bays and it was ultimately to support residents. Since the scheme has been in operation we have encountered no issues, we brought an additional permit from pcm to ensure both our vehicles have both resident and visitor passes displayed in our vehicles at all times which would allow us to park without issues on the estate. 

On the 18th November 2020 we received a parking notice ##### for our vehicle  #### which was parked in our owned bay#### For the first time ever unfortunately the pass had fallen down which left a visitor permit number #### on display. When we had parked the vehicle in our bay both passes were correctly on display. Yet the morning of the fine issued it appears that the car had lots of condensation and the pass had come unattached. 

The parking attendant has issued us with a ticket and has taken numerous photographs of our vehicle..which unfortunately do not show the slipped ticket. In addition the parking attendant would be familiar that both our vehicles display both passes and alternate being parked in our bay####  but continued to issue us a ticket.

We have since made 3 appeals to the parking agency explaining the situation...sending evidence that we are residents and have the rights to park in bay ,#### that we purchased an additional pass at our expense for the bay and car, that the visitor pass permit that remained on display is linked to bay t#### he and they continue to refuse our appeal and are demanding payments with threats of debt collection and court action. For a scheme that is implemented to help residents this is not acting in the interests of residents as they will not listen to our appeal but are instead scaremongering to make money.

As explained since the implementation of the scheme we have not had any issues and we believe this is due to us paying £15 to purchase the extra pass and parking in our owned bay or making use of the visitor spaces for ourselves and guests. We have complied to the scheme and displayed passes as we understand for the scheme to work effectively and unknown vehicles to be ticketed and stop parking on the estate passes need to be displayed. It's unfortunate that the pass had fallen down and as stated when leaving the car both passes were on display and we have no reason to not display both the passes. In addition the parking operator would be familiar with our vehicles, we followed their appeals process with 3 appeals yet they will not reassess the fine or listen to our appeal and instead are continuing to pursue payment, debt collection and potentially court action.

Had our vehicle  ####been parked in another residents bay or on the double yellow lines I would agree that we would have no grounds to appealing but the vehicle was parked in our own bay p106 which is outlined in the land registry document received when purchasing the property back in 2011. 

We would appreciate your support as our management agency with resolving this issue and having the ticket removed. 

We await to hear from you 

Mangent company replied this afternoon saying 

Good afternoon,

 Thank you for your email, and I’m sorry to hear that PCM have rejected your appeals so far.

As per our letter to residents dated 22nd July 2019, PREIM have no power to remove Penalty Charge Notices and our involvement in the scheme is minimal. This was a condition of us assisting with the set up of this scheme.  Our position has not changed since then, so I’m afraid we are unable to become involved in your dispute.

However, PCM are a member of the IPC (International Parking Community) -https://theipc.info/ - and I am aware that you can pursue an independent appeal via them, so perhaps this could be your next course of action if you feel that you have valid grounds.

Notwithstanding the above, I will discuss your situation with the steering committee at Keith Park Road as we have had a few issues recently so this will part of the review process for whether the scheme continues or not.

Kind regards

 

It's too late to appeal to IPC.. not that it should have much luck anyway... not sure what to do next 

Any help with wording letters would be kindly appreciated 

Coupon-mad

Your complaint was far too nice about PCM - a truly nasty ex-clamper, predatory firm who penalise residents galore.  Don't say this about PCM!

Since the scheme has been in operation we have encountered no issues

Jeez, is is a huge issue that you accepted them being foisted on you and thought you had to display a permit and pay for one!

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

You really should have added to these issues.  Why are the residents allowing this to happen to you all?

I will discuss your situation with the steering committee at Keith Park Road as we have had a few issues recently so this will part of the review process for whether the scheme continues or not.

Fruitcake

What does your lease/AST say about parking, permits, PCNs, and paying scammers? What it doesn't say is just as important.
Your lease/AST has primacy of contract over anything a third party scammers says, and your rights cannot arbitrarily be varied.

Was there a ballot of residents in accordance with Section 37 of the Landlords and Tenants Act 1987 with a majority of at least 75% of residents in favour and no more than 10% of residents dissenting? This is an Act of Parliament. It is the law. Landlords and MAs must abide by it.

kat345

My email to the management committee wasn't a complaint yet... more reaching out for them to be aware and hoping they would assist. 

I have asked management company for copies of letters sent to residents prior to scheme being in place as I don't know why but I didn't keep them (I seem to have all other letters) 

Initially was grateful for having enforcement as had as had issues regularly with others parking in my bays - never thought it would come to this. Didn't realise who this company was and would assume simply an email to explain would have been enough. Clearly not! 

Pending responses will then be looking at making a formal complaint to management company as surely they should be stepping in to get it resolved? I don't feel my appeal was unfair?

The lease describes 
"Flat numbered plot ###  - then address ##### together with parking space numbered ###
which is shown with the bay being marked in red on a plan I have of the estate.

No mention of parking enforcement ( as I've been here nearly 9 years and parking enforcement brought in less than 2 years ago)

What should I be now be saying in my complaint to management agency? Should I ask them to highlight in my lease where it states I cant park in my own bay without a permit.. should I be looking to make contact with the 'landowners' annington who are mentioned in the lease if the management company doesn't engage in getting rid of the charge. 

This may seem like a silly question but If this his ends up going to court who is taking me to court is it pcm or the landowners annington as surely this land I'm parked on is mine as I have a lease taken out in 2011 for 125 years?

Thanks for your help everyone 

Fruitcake

It will be the parking scammers who take you to court, which is why you should be doing everything you can to get this cancelled, and your car reg put on on an exemption list.

In your complaint you state word for word what it says in your lease about parking, and about the right to quiet enjoyment. You include what it doesn't say; that there is no requirement for you to display a permit, and nothing about being issued with PCNs or having to pay an unregulated third party who are strangers to your lease if you don't display one.
You only displayed a permit as a curtest to the parking company to assist them.

Look up S37 of the L & T Act and ask the MA/MC/Landowner when (not if) the ballot of residents and landowner(s) was carried out that allows them to vary your lease and the lease of other residents. Also ask what the result of the ballot was, reminding them that not carrying out the ballot is a breach of said Act.

Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (legislation.gov.uk)

S37 of the Act  Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 (legislation.gov.uk)

Coupon-mad

Reply to their email and show them the link to the Parking Prankster's blog about them being exposed on Watchdog, and tell them you have been researching the issues and that when they refer your case to the Steering Committee, you want them to be told that your view is, you want PCM removed.  The estate does not need the private nuisance of an aggressive ex-clamper firm (at all).  Any others will be little better because there is currently no independent appeal (they lie...) and the whole industry is rotten and about to be reined in, anyway, by Government, following the new Private Parking (Code of Practice) Act 2019.

Get PCM removed immediately, like in this thread (please read all of it, from the start to finish):
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5997200/pcm-company-introduced/p1

You need to make it clear that the MA are interfering with your leasehold rights and causing a private nuisance to the leaseholders and MUST be removed, and should never have been introduced.  Get neighbours together if you can.  If you are the leaseholder (owner) of the flat you have more clout than a tenant but whichever, you are all entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property.

NEVER EVER agree to a permit scheme at your own home.

D_P_Dance

Have you read this?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

Have you complained to your MP?

kat345

Thought thought I would pop back to just provide an update.... no help from management company nor the ultimate landowners of whom our lease is from when purchasing our property.

Anyways... have had all the letters from the various departments at trace (collections and legal) of which we have ignored with them saying
payment due
payment date expired
final demand 
case under review
and finally pending legal action 

So now we just wait and see what happens next 

Coupon-mad

And read any Gladstones PCM court claim threads because that's what will happen, and that's when you win and the scam ends this year!

kat345

Also in process of chasing up pcm with having our bay removed from their monitoring.