P45 not issued on termination

Molly56

My husband was made redundant from his job on 26th October when his employer paid his final salary payment at the end of furlough period but has not received his P45. We requested this but his employer says that because the final payment falls within the quarter Oct to Dec the P45 will not be issued until the end of the quarter so will not be issued until January ......is this correct?

We have checked my husbands PAYE record on government gateway and found some errors so wanted the P45 before contacting HMRC to get them corrected.....my husband is not on speaking terms with his employer as currently taking him to employment tribunal for failure to pay redundancy sum due....employment tribunal date set for end of January so wanted to get wages error sorted prior to that if possible hence need to check P45 is correct

Dazed_and_C0nfused

I cannot think of any reason why they couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't issue the P45 now if they have made the final payment due.

Maybe some odd internal company policy?  If you really wanted the answer to this you would have to ask the employer for the reason they have this policy.

What exactly is wrong on his Personal Tax Account?  HMRC do not correct errors made by employers, that is always up to the employer to correct (by filing revised real time information details).

Molly56

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:
What exactly is wrong on his Personal Tax Account?  HMRC do not correct errors made by employers, that is always your up to the employer to correct (by filing revised real time information details).

The employer put in an amount but then paid my husband £400 less because he says he had made an error and overpaid him by that amount in a previous period....he has since made an adjustment which effectively shows my husband has had too much income tax deducted from pay (about £195)...also other minor errors between net amounts due and paid.....employer does not provide payslips so have had to resort to checking personal tax account to look for errors. 

Just want to make sure that net amount due = net amount received.
No point trying to address with employer (sole trader with one now ex employee!) as not on speaking terms due to tribunal ....can feel a long letter to HMRC will be required with evidence of how amounts received differ.....possibly an income tax refund from HMRC for tax overpaid will be the answer if that is what it turns out to be

General_Grant

Molly56 said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:
What exactly is wrong on his Personal Tax Account?  HMRC do not correct errors made by employers, that is always your up to the employer to correct (by filing revised real time information details).

The employer put in an amount but then paid my husband £400 less because he says he had made an error and overpaid him by that amount in a previous period....he has since made an adjustment which effectively shows my husband has had too much income tax deducted from pay (about £195)...also other minor errors between net amounts due and paid.....employer does not provide payslips so have had to resort to checking personal tax account to look for errors. 

Just want to make sure that net amount due = net amount received.
No point trying to address with employer (sole trader with one now ex employee!) as not on speaking terms due to tribunal ....can feel a long letter to HMRC will be required with evidence of how amounts received differ.....possibly an income tax refund from HMRC for tax overpaid will be the answer if that is what it turns out to be

Failure to provide payslips at or before the time of payment could be added to an ET case, I believe.  Have you done this?

Molly56

General_Grant said:

Failure to provide payslips at or before the time of payment could be added to an ET case, I believe.  Have you done this?

You are probably correct but we have not added this to the employment tribunal case as our first priority is to get the redundancy lump sum payment due agreed and paid...
...am hoping by keeping it simple (which it is) it will be agreed by judge without argument (which it should be)...my husband has worked for 15 years for employer before being made redundant and has never received a payslip in all that time so is a bit irrelevant to be asking for 15 years worth of payslips at this stage....if judge asks for them as proof of employment we can say we never got any! ....I may of mentioned this to ACAS at some point in dealings to date so think it is already on the record that payslips not received. 
Have no idea how employer calculates wages or what system he uses (not very tech minded) but knowing him as we do is probably on back of an envelope!

Savvy_Sue

If it's a small employer only making small payments to HMRC, it is possible that they are only paying these quarterly, and that's their argument for not issuing the P45 now. See this. 

They're still supposed to make their RTI returns each time they pay someone, of course. 

Molly56

Since my husbands last pay on 26th October an adjustment of minus £195.20 for income tax appears on his personal tax record for November as viewed on government gateway......no further amounts have been received from employer...

...if this is income tax overpaid as it appears to be will my husband be able to claim this back from HMRC or be claiming this as underpaid wages from employer...on the basis that employer deducted too much tax from his gross in the month where error occurred

(employer underpaid husband by £400 net in June as he said he had overpaid in a previous month (at end of last tax year) but personal tax account showed higher amount....employer corrected this on HMRC since last pay as we raised it as an issue so gross amount now correct but has obviously generated the minus tax figure as shown above)

...my guess is that it will depend on how much employer paid / pays to HMRC in his quarterly return for Oct to Dec, whether he deducted it from the amount he owed HMRC or not.....not sure how I would find this out so not sure who we should be pursuing to resolve discrepancy...just want to get things straight and hopefully an accurate P45 with correct amount of income tax deducted and paid

Any thoughts on this appreciated

Thrugelmir

Where P60's received previously?  I'd ask for payslips to be provided for the current tax year. Do you have a hearing date set yet? 

Molly56

Thrugelmir said:

Where P60's received previously?  I'd ask for payslips to be provided for the current tax year. Do you have a hearing date set yet? 

P60s were received at end of each tax year.....

....asked for payslips previously and just got a one page type written schedule in August which showed gross/ tax / net and hours worked from Jan 20 to end of tax year March 20 (paid weekly) and months 1 to 7 for 20/21 (paid monthly whilst on furlough)...some of these figures were estimated (Aug / Sept / Oct) and some incorrect / don’t correspond with personal tax account figures...

...am thinking I need to request an updated corrected version....though blood and stone spring to mind at this point....

...regarding ‘payslips’....does above one page type written schedule for entire period qualify as a payslip???....is not my idea of a payslip!

...hearing date set for 29th Jan ....awaiting details of response to claim which employer has until 30th December to submit...

General_Grant

Payslips are meant to be issued at or before the time of each payment so a summary schedule issued after the event does not get close to their meeting the legal requirement.

Molly56

General_Grant said:

Payslips are meant to be issued at or before the time of each payment so a summary schedule issued after the event does not get close to their meeting the legal requirement.

Are there any penalties for employers who do not provide payslips?