Threatening letters from TV Licensing

jon81uk

Cornucopia said:

armith said:

Currently the vast majority of people pay the licence fee. Those I know who don't mostly pay far more for Sky/Netflix etc and rely on internet sources for things like news and current affairs. They simply don't pay to watch the BBC - but would often like to watch the occasional thing on terrestrial television.

I agree with your other points, but this is a bit of a stereotype.   I have just Amazon Prime Video.   It provides a bit more quality programming for £6, so that's half the current Licence Fee.   

I could probably go without it, because there's lots of good stuff on All4 and My5 that I don't have the time to even investigate.

The reason why the abolition of the fee is important, I think, is because that would take away a source of financial and emotional stress from people on low or fragile incomes.   They could have access to genuinely free to view TV via Freeview for the first time, and could then drop in and out of any subscriptions as they wished.

How do you think Freeview is funded? The license fee pays towards that too.

Cornucopia

jon81uk said:

Cornucopia said:

armith said:

Currently the vast majority of people pay the licence fee. Those I know who don't mostly pay far more for Sky/Netflix etc and rely on internet sources for things like news and current affairs. They simply don't pay to watch the BBC - but would often like to watch the occasional thing on terrestrial television.

I agree with your other points, but this is a bit of a stereotype.   I have just Amazon Prime Video.   It provides a bit more quality programming for £6, so that's half the current Licence Fee.   

I could probably go without it, because there's lots of good stuff on All4 and My5 that I don't have the time to even investigate.

The reason why the abolition of the fee is important, I think, is because that would take away a source of financial and emotional stress from people on low or fragile incomes.   They could have access to genuinely free to view TV via Freeview for the first time, and could then drop in and out of any subscriptions as they wished.

How do you think Freeview is funded? The license fee pays towards that too.

I didn't say it wasn't.   

Technically, it's not funded by the Licence Fee - the BBC pays for the carriage of its channels.

HeleninSussex

I’ve just found this thread and wondered if anyone had found a way of stopping this harassment?

As I no longer watch BBC or i-Player (or any other live channels) I wrote to TV Licensing saying I was cancelling my direct debit. They immediately started
sending me threatening e-mails saying I would be prosecuted.

I tried to fill in their online “No licence needed” form but it asked me for "the date in the future when my property would become occupied" (?) which made no sense as they know I already live here!

I e-mailed TV Licensing explaining all this and confirming (yet again) that I do not need a licence. Their auto-reply said they would contact me within five days, which they haven’t. Instead, I’ve received by post a very intimidating and threatening letter saying one of their thugs would be paying me a visit...

I’m at my wits’ end to know how to deal with this. To report them to the Dispute Resolution Ombudsman I first need a “letter of deadlock” from TV Licensing saying they can’t resolve it – and I’ve had no such letter.

For a female pensioner living alone (presumably the reason they’ve targeted me!) this is fast becoming a nightmare. Surely what they’re doing is illegal? Any suggestions will be hugely appreciated! :-)

Cornucopia

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82105777#Comment_82105777

There are a few more recent threads that might give you some more up to date info than this one…

But in short, you don't need to provide BBC/TV Licensing with any info or any co-operation with their day-to-day admin processes. If you don't need a Licence and don't have one, that is all you need to do. If they say you are being "investigated"/"mandatorily visited"/"prosecuted" none of that is true. If one of their sales people does actually visit you, you do not have to speak with them (and shouldn't) or even answer the door.

If their mass communications are bothering you, you can just wait for them to turn anonymous (usually takes 6 months from the last time you contacted them). They send 40 million of these letters per year, so they are not personal, but more like scammy promotions.

If you find them just too threatening, there are three options: 1) tell them to "Cease and Desist" - this is a legal term, but you don't need a Solicitor to use it with them, 2) write a formal complaint to the details shown on their website citing harassment, or 3) complain to your MP - this will probably take the longest, and you may have to persuade the MP that you have a problem before they will do anything.

LightFlare

I genuinely get confused by these things

If you use a service that requires a licence - buy one

If you don’t - ignore the letters

Why do people try and make more of it

Cornucopia

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82105942#Comment_82105942

A lot of people simply don't question official-looking letters/emails. That's probably a good thing overall. But BBC/TV Licensing letters are pretty disgusting especially if you take them at face value. Once you know the relevant law and the wordplay you can get into the habit of ignoring them.

I return mine unopened (but they aren't addressed by name).

HillStreetBlues

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82105942#Comment_82105942

I get confused by people getting confused when I don't see any confusion!

HeleninSussex

Many thanks Cornucopia for your very helpful and reassuring reply. I think I will either just ignore them in future or - as you do - return them unopened.

prowla

Yes, they send letters; there are blogs, YouTube videos, and so-on covering these.

One point is if you ever get a visit you can (unless they have a warrant and ar accompained by the police, I THINK), yu can tell them to go away and you can even instruct them that you are revoking their "Implied right of access" so that they may not even knock on your door.

There are also questions as to the legality of their letters, for example their use of the word "Enforcement", which has a legal meaning and is not within their remit.

Cornucopia

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/82106277#Comment_82106277

Yes, if/when TV Licensing attempt to make contact with you at your home on routine sales visits (which they may call "investigation" or "enforcement" but aren't), you do not have to engage with them. You can require them to leave, and you can withdraw their implied right of access. The latter means that they cannot remain and they cannot come back, either, on another sales visit.

"WOIRA" (Withdrawing the implied right of access) and "No Licence Needed" are both deemed by TV Licensing to only last for 1 year, so many people may not want to get involved in legal complexity for a relatively short-lived benefit. This is especially the case since anyone can require TVL to leave their doorstep without needing additional legal support for it. You can invoke WOIRA on the doorstep, or in advance in writing.

TVL letters exist in an awkward legal situation. There are various issues to do with falsehood (and the use of misleading wordplay) to achieve a level of threat and a pretence of legal coercion, and there are issues to do with the legal status of threats and harassment towards a named or unnamed person. I suspect that threats towards an unnamed person may be deemed less serious in law, but IANAL. I'm not aware of any legal info online about this angle.

Overall, and with some years experience of dealing with them, my choice is to ignore them without using any pre-emptive legal tactics. They do not have my name and incidentally have never had it at this address. That makes any potential sales visit very difficult for them - why would I volunteer my name to them?

TVL Warrants are extremely rare - at one stage around 100 per year for the whole of England and Wales. The first reason is that they are not arbitrary. There needs to be reasonable suspicion of an offence before an application can be made. They are more expensive to execute than a basic sales visit, and require the co-operation and availability of local Police. Even after a Warrant has been executed, householders are still protected by their legal interview rights, and cannot be compelled to give TVL the signed confession that they are looking for.