What operating system should I put on my quite old computer

HereToday

unforeseen said:

It's not piracy but against Microsoft Licencing conditions (that most people don't read anyway) 

Let's say the OP wants to evaluate the software to see if it even runs on her device...against conditions? I don't think so. Why make a drama about nothing?

Microsoft want people to use Windows 10. If they wanted to make it difficult to use without a product key they could have done that.

CoastingHatbox

HereToday said:

lonestarfan said:

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

Any other suggestions on what to do. Thank you. 

Fit SSD and install Windows 10. That's it. Don't over-complicate. More RAM will make a negligible difference; SSD will make a noticeable difference.
Coasting HatBox isn't quite correct about the RAM: 

The type of memory (RAM) you are looking for is: 240-pin PC6200 800 MHz DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM

He actually means: DDR2 PC2-6400 • CL=6 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • DIMM

But the chances that your existing RAM is DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-667 • DIMM

You can mix and match, but best to just replace all, as modules are relatively cheap: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEMORY-RAM-DDR2-DDR3-DDR4-2GB-4GB-8GB-16GB-DESKTOP-SERVER-LAPTOP-Lot/223872276673

If it's the Dimension E521(Post the Service Tag or Express Code), it can take up to 8 GB; https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail/?id=smem8bxd A whole £12. But you may not want to splash out £30 on 8 GB of RAM and an SSD. SSD first, RAM(if wanted) afterwards.

Have you not even purchased the SSD yet??

Thank you for the correction to my typo.

8GB is not officially supported. It may work but it doesn't always. 4GB is guaranteed to work.

HereToday said:

snip

Here is an example of DRAM(Patriot Burst) vs 3D NAND with no DRAM(Crucial BX 500) for your perusal:
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-120GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-120GB/m34732vsm576784
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-240GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-240GB/m33423vsm578496

The OPs computer does not support SATA 3, so will not see the benefit. Not only that, but I try and make my recommendations to products I've seen in service so that I can vouch for their reliability. Some of the lower cost SSDs don't last long, or experience a failure mode where their very limited fast SLC/MLC cells used to cache writes wear out prematurely and some of them turn out to be incredibly slow when that happens. I've got a pile of half dead SSDs in this state which I still have an occasional use for.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

I think by the time you've found some more RAM and sprung for an SSD you have probably made half the outlay you would on a better second hand PC. You can get 4-5 year old Dell Optiplexes with SSD, 8GB RAM and an Intel i5 Processor for not much over £100 on a popular auction site. Considerably less if you are patient. Performance wise, this will be like night and day compared to the computer you currently have.

More ridiculousness? 

RAM costs no more than £3 per module. SSD £16. Stop exaggerating.

Why not link to these 4 to 5 year old Optiplex desktops for just over £100. I'm expecting between £100 and £110, otherwise what do you mean by "just over £100".
I know as I ran a search for them just recently. You can only refer to 3040, 3050, 5040 & 7040. You make out as if the standard price for them is just over £100 but it is not. If so, link to them.

I'll start you off:
3040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&_sop=2&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

3050 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3050+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=2

5040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+5040+i5&_sacat=0&_sop=2&SSD%20Capacity=128%20GB|240GB|480GB|500%20GB|120%20GB&rt=nc&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179

7040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+7040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

Bargains can be had, but there is no need for hyperbole.

My recommendation was 3rd/4th/5th gen i5. Your links start at 6th gen. Irrespective of that, if you look at the 'sold' listings, for, say Optiplex 3020, you will see there are a good number in there under £100 which, even after springing for an SSD, would total less that £100. Yes there are lots for over £100 on buy-it-now, but if you wait for one to come up at auction you can pay significantly less than that, hence the remark about patience when I first suggested it.

I'm typing this on a Dell Latitude E6230 Laptop I paid the princely sum of £90 for 18 months ago. Laptops are carrying a bit of a premium right now because of the COVID-19/Work From Home situation, but there are still bargains to be had for those not in a hurry.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

Probably best not to encourage people to do things that are illegal.

"You are authorized to use this software only if you are properly licensed and the software has been properly activated with a genuine product key or by other authorized method."

You could try Linux. I'd recommend Debian with the Cinnamon desktop on old hardware. Look for the unofficial 'with non-free firmware' ISO for the least painful installation experience. You could also look at Ubuntu or Fedora. You might hit a couple of snagging issues which might require a bit of research to resolve, however your experience with it could be the total opposite of that. I've had older relatives using it (temporarily*) with no issues at all.

*I'd never force anyone onto it, but I've leant them laptops running Linux whilst repairing their own computers.

Who has done that here??

Probably better to not accuse people of doing things that you have made up entirely in your own head.

Best not accuse people of making things up.
Software piracy is theft and using a plaftform like MSE to encourage it is at best dubious.

forgotmyname said:

Just install windows 10, dont bother activating it.  It works without activating.

Downsides to not activating you dont get to change some personalisation settings, although there are other menus

to change them. Silly MS left the oold menus active although they are slowly working on that it seems.

After a while a nag message asks you to activate, you can ignore it. change the desktop wallpaper.

Downsides which maybe a bonus, MS wont spam you will lots of useless apps that you didnt ask for.  3rd update

in the past 2 months that changed my browser to Edge and installed Maps. No MS i Dont want either.

But you do get the security updates.

Where is the piracy? Please don't post nonsense. If the software works without a product key, using it does not amount to piracy nor illegal usage.

If they suggested modifying the software in order to bypass activation, then you might have a point. They didn't and you don't. Please desist from posting scaremongering nonsense.

It's not a issue. There are many roads to activating Windows 10 or you can leave it un-activated if you wish. Not activated doesn't equal illegal.

I challenge you to find ANY link from Microsoft that suggests using an yet un-activated Windows 10 installation amounts to piracy or illegality. That paragraph means nothing. Find even a single consumer on the whole of this earth who has been contacted because they are running an un-activated install of Windows 10.
On the contrary you will find articles detailing clearly that there are few restrictions in doing so. Microsoft's best effort to discourage it is to state that people using the Creation Tool should have a product key or licence. No different from the paragraph you posted. Yet, the software itself allows you to run it without a product key...forever. Hardly a mistake in the design.

So the OP can test the software to her heart's content before plumping for an inexpensive product key and you can keep your scaremongering to yourself.

No, this is not scaremongering.
It is, for example, point 5 in the Windows 10 OEM license:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

The same terms are in the retail EULA.
If Windows is not activated, it's use is not authorized. Software Piracy is a breach of license. What you are advocating is therefore piracy. It is not a grey area, it is not nonsense.

There are evaluation versions of Windows and many other Microsoft products which anyone can use for testing and evaluation for a period of time to their hearts content, but these still require activation and have time restricted use.

The 'inexpensive' product keys are also illegal. They are OEM keys licensing Windows for use on a specific piece of hardware. What you choose to do in terms of using unlicensed software is your choice, but encouraging other people to breach software licenses is something I take a very dim view of, especially when there are alternatives.

Edited to condense into one post.

HereToday

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

lonestarfan said:

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

Any other suggestions on what to do. Thank you. 

Fit SSD and install Windows 10. That's it. Don't over-complicate. More RAM will make a negligible difference; SSD will make a noticeable difference.
Coasting HatBox isn't quite correct about the RAM: 

The type of memory (RAM) you are looking for is: 240-pin PC6200 800 MHz DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM

He actually means: DDR2 PC2-6400 • CL=6 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • DIMM

But the chances that your existing RAM is DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-667 • DIMM

You can mix and match, but best to just replace all, as modules are relatively cheap: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEMORY-RAM-DDR2-DDR3-DDR4-2GB-4GB-8GB-16GB-DESKTOP-SERVER-LAPTOP-Lot/223872276673

If it's the Dimension E521(Post the Service Tag or Express Code), it can take up to 8 GB; https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail/?id=smem8bxd A whole £12. But you may not want to splash out £30 on 8 GB of RAM and an SSD. SSD first, RAM(if wanted) afterwards.

Have you not even purchased the SSD yet??

Thank you for the correction to my typo.

8GB is not officially supported. It may work but it doesn't always. 4GB is guaranteed to work.

HereToday said:

snip

Here is an example of DRAM(Patriot Burst) vs 3D NAND with no DRAM(Crucial BX 500) for your perusal:
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-120GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-120GB/m34732vsm576784
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-240GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-240GB/m33423vsm578496

The OPs computer does not support SATA 3, so will not see the benefit. Not only that, but I try and make my recommendations to products I've seen in service so that I can vouch for their reliability. Some of the lower cost SSDs don't last long, or experience a failure mode where their very limited fast SLC/MLC cells used to cache writes wear out prematurely and some of them turn out to be incredibly slow when that happens. I've got a pile of half dead SSDs in this state which I still have an occasional use for.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

I think by the time you've found some more RAM and sprung for an SSD you have probably made half the outlay you would on a better second hand PC. You can get 4-5 year old Dell Optiplexes with SSD, 8GB RAM and an Intel i5 Processor for not much over £100 on a popular auction site. Considerably less if you are patient. Performance wise, this will be like night and day compared to the computer you currently have.

More ridiculousness? 

RAM costs no more than £3 per module. SSD £16. Stop exaggerating.

Why not link to these 4 to 5 year old Optiplex desktops for just over £100. I'm expecting between £100 and £110, otherwise what do you mean by "just over £100".
I know as I ran a search for them just recently. You can only refer to 3040, 3050, 5040 & 7040. You make out as if the standard price for them is just over £100 but it is not. If so, link to them.

I'll start you off:
3040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&_sop=2&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

3050 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3050+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=2

5040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+5040+i5&_sacat=0&_sop=2&SSD%20Capacity=128%20GB|240GB|480GB|500%20GB|120%20GB&rt=nc&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179

7040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+7040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

Bargains can be had, but there is no need for hyperbole.

My recommendation was 3rd/4th/5th gen i5. Your links start at 6th gen. Irrespective of that, if you look at the 'sold' listings, for, say Optiplex 3020, you will see there are a good number in there under £100 which, even after springing for an SSD, would total less that £100. Yes there are lots for over £100 on buy-it-now, but if you wait for one to come up at auction you can pay significantly less than that, hence the remark about patience when I first suggested it.

I'm typing this on a Dell Latitude E6230 Laptop I paid the princely sum of £90 for 18 months ago. Laptops are carrying a bit of a premium right now because of the COVID-19/Work From Home situation, but there are still bargains to be had for those not in a hurry.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

Probably best not to encourage people to do things that are illegal.

"You are authorized to use this software only if you are properly licensed and the software has been properly activated with a genuine product key or by other authorized method."

You could try Linux. I'd recommend Debian with the Cinnamon desktop on old hardware. Look for the unofficial 'with non-free firmware' ISO for the least painful installation experience. You could also look at Ubuntu or Fedora. You might hit a couple of snagging issues which might require a bit of research to resolve, however your experience with it could be the total opposite of that. I've had older relatives using it (temporarily*) with no issues at all.

*I'd never force anyone onto it, but I've leant them laptops running Linux whilst repairing their own computers.

Who has done that here??

Probably better to not accuse people of doing things that you have made up entirely in your own head.

Best not accuse people of making things up.
Software piracy is theft and using a plaftform like MSE to encourage it is at best dubious.

forgotmyname said:

Just install windows 10, dont bother activating it.  It works without activating.

Downsides to not activating you dont get to change some personalisation settings, although there are other menus

to change them. Silly MS left the oold menus active although they are slowly working on that it seems.

After a while a nag message asks you to activate, you can ignore it. change the desktop wallpaper.

Downsides which maybe a bonus, MS wont spam you will lots of useless apps that you didnt ask for.  3rd update

in the past 2 months that changed my browser to Edge and installed Maps. No MS i Dont want either.

But you do get the security updates.

Where is the piracy? Please don't post nonsense. If the software works without a product key, using it does not amount to piracy nor illegal usage.

If they suggested modifying the software in order to bypass activation, then you might have a point. They didn't and you don't. Please desist from posting scaremongering nonsense.

It's not a issue. There are many roads to activating Windows 10 or you can leave it un-activated if you wish. Not activated doesn't equal illegal.

I challenge you to find ANY link from Microsoft that suggests using an yet un-activated Windows 10 installation amounts to piracy or illegality. That paragraph means nothing. Find even a single consumer on the whole of this earth who has been contacted because they are running an un-activated install of Windows 10.
On the contrary you will find articles detailing clearly that there are few restrictions in doing so. Microsoft's best effort to discourage it is to state that people using the Creation Tool should have a product key or licence. No different from the paragraph you posted. Yet, the software itself allows you to run it without a product key...forever. Hardly a mistake in the design.

So the OP can test the software to her heart's content before plumping for an inexpensive product key and you can keep your scaremongering to yourself.

No, this is not scaremongering.
It is, for example, point 5 in the Windows 10 OEM license:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

The same terms are in the retail EULA.
If Windows is not activated, it's use is not authorized. Software Piracy is a breach of license. What you are advocating is therefore piracy. It is not a grey area, it is not nonsense.

There are evaluation versions of Windows and many other Microsoft products which anyone can use for testing and evaluation for a period of time to their hearts content, but these still require activation and have time restricted use.

The 'inexpensive' product keys are also illegal. They are OEM keys licensing Windows for use on a specific piece of hardware. What you choose to do in terms of using unlicensed software is your choice, but encouraging other people to breach software licenses is something I take a very dim view of, especially when there are alternatives.

Edited to condense into one post.

Again?
Almost everything you have written is wrong. Backwards again. The keys aren't necessarily OEM keys and you don't know that they are. So stop pretending that you do. 

Where did I suggest that she shouldn't activate it? You are becoming a crashing bore. I actually wrote that their will be no issue with activation; but it's easier to buy a key via eBay. 

Back to the Optiplex: What you actually wrote was 4 to 5 years old. That would be max Nov 2015.
3rd Gen 2012, 4th Gen 2013 and 5th Gen 2014. Not one within your range of 4 to 5 years old. Moving the goalposts or prepared to admit that you got it wrong?
I mentioned your tendency to exaggerate. There's no need; it might only send the uninitiated off on a wild goose chase.

As to the statement concerning the OP's Desktop not supporting SATA 3 and therefore you won't be able to notice the difference...
SSD benefit(on a boot drive) is not in headline sustained write speeds, but lots of little small read and writes and IOPS. Therein lies the benefit of DRAM, especially in smaller capacity drives such as 120 GB. You really need a deeper knowledge if you are going to advise people. Way too many statements presented as fact; when they are just your erroneous opinion.
Do a bit more reading and you will see that I am right.


Back to the OP's desktop: Who cares if it 8GB not "officially" supported? Some devices were released before larger capacity modules were released. That doesn't mean that the chipset cannot accept the larger module.
The device isn't supported by DELL at all anyway, so what does "official" have to do with it. It's down to the Chipset. So if it is supported, it is supported. Nothing to do with sometimes. You just have to be clear about the device in question. You appear to have skipped that part.

Please stop clogging up the thread with long winded and erroneous posts. It appears somewhat pedantic truth be told.

Microsoft, unofficially, doesn't care if you evaluate the software, but you do. Official this, official that. 

If someone chooses to evaluate the software on their home PC before purchasing a key, Microsoft won't bother you. If they are not bothered, why are you?

Nevertheless, activation is not an issue for the DELL, because of Royalty OEM.

CoastingHatbox

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

lonestarfan said:

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

Any other suggestions on what to do. Thank you. 

Fit SSD and install Windows 10. That's it. Don't over-complicate. More RAM will make a negligible difference; SSD will make a noticeable difference.
Coasting HatBox isn't quite correct about the RAM: 

The type of memory (RAM) you are looking for is: 240-pin PC6200 800 MHz DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM

He actually means: DDR2 PC2-6400 • CL=6 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • DIMM

But the chances that your existing RAM is DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-667 • DIMM

You can mix and match, but best to just replace all, as modules are relatively cheap: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEMORY-RAM-DDR2-DDR3-DDR4-2GB-4GB-8GB-16GB-DESKTOP-SERVER-LAPTOP-Lot/223872276673

If it's the Dimension E521(Post the Service Tag or Express Code), it can take up to 8 GB; https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail/?id=smem8bxd A whole £12. But you may not want to splash out £30 on 8 GB of RAM and an SSD. SSD first, RAM(if wanted) afterwards.

Have you not even purchased the SSD yet??

Thank you for the correction to my typo.

8GB is not officially supported. It may work but it doesn't always. 4GB is guaranteed to work.

HereToday said:

snip

Here is an example of DRAM(Patriot Burst) vs 3D NAND with no DRAM(Crucial BX 500) for your perusal:
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-120GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-120GB/m34732vsm576784
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-240GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-240GB/m33423vsm578496

The OPs computer does not support SATA 3, so will not see the benefit. Not only that, but I try and make my recommendations to products I've seen in service so that I can vouch for their reliability. Some of the lower cost SSDs don't last long, or experience a failure mode where their very limited fast SLC/MLC cells used to cache writes wear out prematurely and some of them turn out to be incredibly slow when that happens. I've got a pile of half dead SSDs in this state which I still have an occasional use for.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

I think by the time you've found some more RAM and sprung for an SSD you have probably made half the outlay you would on a better second hand PC. You can get 4-5 year old Dell Optiplexes with SSD, 8GB RAM and an Intel i5 Processor for not much over £100 on a popular auction site. Considerably less if you are patient. Performance wise, this will be like night and day compared to the computer you currently have.

More ridiculousness? 

RAM costs no more than £3 per module. SSD £16. Stop exaggerating.

Why not link to these 4 to 5 year old Optiplex desktops for just over £100. I'm expecting between £100 and £110, otherwise what do you mean by "just over £100".
I know as I ran a search for them just recently. You can only refer to 3040, 3050, 5040 & 7040. You make out as if the standard price for them is just over £100 but it is not. If so, link to them.

I'll start you off:
3040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&_sop=2&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

3050 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3050+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=2

5040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+5040+i5&_sacat=0&_sop=2&SSD%20Capacity=128%20GB|240GB|480GB|500%20GB|120%20GB&rt=nc&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179

7040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+7040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

Bargains can be had, but there is no need for hyperbole.

My recommendation was 3rd/4th/5th gen i5. Your links start at 6th gen. Irrespective of that, if you look at the 'sold' listings, for, say Optiplex 3020, you will see there are a good number in there under £100 which, even after springing for an SSD, would total less that £100. Yes there are lots for over £100 on buy-it-now, but if you wait for one to come up at auction you can pay significantly less than that, hence the remark about patience when I first suggested it.

I'm typing this on a Dell Latitude E6230 Laptop I paid the princely sum of £90 for 18 months ago. Laptops are carrying a bit of a premium right now because of the COVID-19/Work From Home situation, but there are still bargains to be had for those not in a hurry.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

Probably best not to encourage people to do things that are illegal.

"You are authorized to use this software only if you are properly licensed and the software has been properly activated with a genuine product key or by other authorized method."

You could try Linux. I'd recommend Debian with the Cinnamon desktop on old hardware. Look for the unofficial 'with non-free firmware' ISO for the least painful installation experience. You could also look at Ubuntu or Fedora. You might hit a couple of snagging issues which might require a bit of research to resolve, however your experience with it could be the total opposite of that. I've had older relatives using it (temporarily*) with no issues at all.

*I'd never force anyone onto it, but I've leant them laptops running Linux whilst repairing their own computers.

Who has done that here??

Probably better to not accuse people of doing things that you have made up entirely in your own head.

Best not accuse people of making things up.
Software piracy is theft and using a plaftform like MSE to encourage it is at best dubious.

forgotmyname said:

Just install windows 10, dont bother activating it.  It works without activating.

Downsides to not activating you dont get to change some personalisation settings, although there are other menus

to change them. Silly MS left the oold menus active although they are slowly working on that it seems.

After a while a nag message asks you to activate, you can ignore it. change the desktop wallpaper.

Downsides which maybe a bonus, MS wont spam you will lots of useless apps that you didnt ask for.  3rd update

in the past 2 months that changed my browser to Edge and installed Maps. No MS i Dont want either.

But you do get the security updates.

Where is the piracy? Please don't post nonsense. If the software works without a product key, using it does not amount to piracy nor illegal usage.

If they suggested modifying the software in order to bypass activation, then you might have a point. They didn't and you don't. Please desist from posting scaremongering nonsense.

It's not a issue. There are many roads to activating Windows 10 or you can leave it un-activated if you wish. Not activated doesn't equal illegal.

I challenge you to find ANY link from Microsoft that suggests using an yet un-activated Windows 10 installation amounts to piracy or illegality. That paragraph means nothing. Find even a single consumer on the whole of this earth who has been contacted because they are running an un-activated install of Windows 10.
On the contrary you will find articles detailing clearly that there are few restrictions in doing so. Microsoft's best effort to discourage it is to state that people using the Creation Tool should have a product key or licence. No different from the paragraph you posted. Yet, the software itself allows you to run it without a product key...forever. Hardly a mistake in the design.

So the OP can test the software to her heart's content before plumping for an inexpensive product key and you can keep your scaremongering to yourself.

No, this is not scaremongering.
It is, for example, point 5 in the Windows 10 OEM license:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

The same terms are in the retail EULA.
If Windows is not activated, it's use is not authorized. Software Piracy is a breach of license. What you are advocating is therefore piracy. It is not a grey area, it is not nonsense.

There are evaluation versions of Windows and many other Microsoft products which anyone can use for testing and evaluation for a period of time to their hearts content, but these still require activation and have time restricted use.

The 'inexpensive' product keys are also illegal. They are OEM keys licensing Windows for use on a specific piece of hardware. What you choose to do in terms of using unlicensed software is your choice, but encouraging other people to breach software licenses is something I take a very dim view of, especially when there are alternatives.

Edited to condense into one post.

Again?
Almost everything you have written is wrong. Backwards again. The keys aren't necessarily OEM keys and you don't know that they are. So stop pretending that you do. 

Where did I suggest that she shouldn't activate it? You are becoming a crashing bore. I actually wrote that their will be no issue with activation; but it's easier to buy a key via eBay. 

Back to the Optiplex: What you actually wrote was 4 to 5 years old. That would be max Nov 2015.
3rd Gen 2012, 4th Gen 2013 and 5th Gen 2014. Not one within your range of 4 to 5 years old. Moving the goalposts or prepared to admit that you got it wrong?
I mentioned your tendency to exaggerate. There's no need; it might only send the uninitiated off on a wild goose chase.

As to the statement concerning the OP's Desktop not supporting SATA 3 and therefore you won't be able to notice the difference...
SSD benefit(on a boot drive) is not in headline sustained write speeds, but lots of little small read and writes and IOPS. Therein lies the benefit of DRAM, especially in smaller capacity drives such as 120 GB. You really need a deeper knowledge if you are going to advise people. Way too many statements presented as fact; when they are just your erroneous opinion.
Do a bit more reading and you will see that I am right.


Back to the OP's desktop: Who cares if it 8GB not "officially" supported? Some devices were released before larger capacity modules were released. That doesn't mean that the chipset cannot accept the larger module.
The device isn't supported by DELL at all anyway, so what does "official" have to do with it. It's down to the Chipset. So if it is supported, it is supported. Nothing to do with sometimes. You just have to be clear about the device in question. You appear to have skipped that part.

Please stop clogging up the thread with long winded and erroneous posts. It appears somewhat pedantic truth be told.

Microsoft, unofficially, doesn't care if you evaluate the software, but you do. Official this, official that. 

If someone chooses to evaluate the software on their home PC before purchasing a key, Microsoft won't bother you. If they are not bothered, why are you?

Nevertheless, activation is not an issue for the DELL, because of Royalty OEM.

If you think an SSD without DRAM is going to be a constraint with that CPU, I think you need to think again. I don't think IO Wait will be an issue no matter what SSD goes in it.

As for the 4/8 GB support, it depends on the characteristics of the RAM installed. If you've never been in a situation where you've found some memory modules will work and others don't whilst pushing the envelope like this, you've clearly not been around the block often enough.

OEMs are often selling systems with CPUs a generation or two old - just bought the wife a brand new Dell laptop which has a 3 generation old Intel CPU in it. It is a current model. It is often the case with the product lines they aim at businesses, as companies like parity in the hardware their internal IT teams support although it is becoming less common recently.

As for your views on licensing, no one is going to be particularly bothered if I set off on an amber light, but that doesn't mean I go around telling other people it's okay.

I think you need to go and nerd snipe somewhere else.

HereToday

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

lonestarfan said:

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

lonestarfan said:

PC is 13 years old. It had more memory added by myself 8 years ago. It was 1GB and I increased it to 3GB. I put 1GB each in slots 2 & 4. I put the 2 x 512MB in slots 1 and 3. 

Any other suggestions on what to do. Thank you. 

Fit SSD and install Windows 10. That's it. Don't over-complicate. More RAM will make a negligible difference; SSD will make a noticeable difference.
Coasting HatBox isn't quite correct about the RAM: 

The type of memory (RAM) you are looking for is: 240-pin PC6200 800 MHz DDR2 Non-ECC SDRAM

He actually means: DDR2 PC2-6400 • CL=6 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-800 • DIMM

But the chances that your existing RAM is DDR2 PC2-5300 • CL=5 • Unbuffered • NON-ECC • DDR2-667 • DIMM

You can mix and match, but best to just replace all, as modules are relatively cheap: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEMORY-RAM-DDR2-DDR3-DDR4-2GB-4GB-8GB-16GB-DESKTOP-SERVER-LAPTOP-Lot/223872276673

If it's the Dimension E521(Post the Service Tag or Express Code), it can take up to 8 GB; https://uk.webuy.com/product-detail/?id=smem8bxd A whole £12. But you may not want to splash out £30 on 8 GB of RAM and an SSD. SSD first, RAM(if wanted) afterwards.

Have you not even purchased the SSD yet??

Thank you for the correction to my typo.

8GB is not officially supported. It may work but it doesn't always. 4GB is guaranteed to work.

HereToday said:

snip

Here is an example of DRAM(Patriot Burst) vs 3D NAND with no DRAM(Crucial BX 500) for your perusal:
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-120GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-120GB/m34732vsm576784
https://ssd.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Patriot-Blast-240GB-vs-Crucial-BX500-240GB/m33423vsm578496

The OPs computer does not support SATA 3, so will not see the benefit. Not only that, but I try and make my recommendations to products I've seen in service so that I can vouch for their reliability. Some of the lower cost SSDs don't last long, or experience a failure mode where their very limited fast SLC/MLC cells used to cache writes wear out prematurely and some of them turn out to be incredibly slow when that happens. I've got a pile of half dead SSDs in this state which I still have an occasional use for.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

I think by the time you've found some more RAM and sprung for an SSD you have probably made half the outlay you would on a better second hand PC. You can get 4-5 year old Dell Optiplexes with SSD, 8GB RAM and an Intel i5 Processor for not much over £100 on a popular auction site. Considerably less if you are patient. Performance wise, this will be like night and day compared to the computer you currently have.

More ridiculousness? 

RAM costs no more than £3 per module. SSD £16. Stop exaggerating.

Why not link to these 4 to 5 year old Optiplex desktops for just over £100. I'm expecting between £100 and £110, otherwise what do you mean by "just over £100".
I know as I ran a search for them just recently. You can only refer to 3040, 3050, 5040 & 7040. You make out as if the standard price for them is just over £100 but it is not. If so, link to them.

I'll start you off:
3040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&_sop=2&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

3050 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+3050+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&LH_PrefLoc=1&_sop=2

5040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+5040+i5&_sacat=0&_sop=2&SSD%20Capacity=128%20GB|240GB|480GB|500%20GB|120%20GB&rt=nc&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179

7040 i5: https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=optiplex+7040+i5&_sacat=0&Storage%20Type=SSD%20%28Solid%20State%20Drive%29&_dcat=179&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

Bargains can be had, but there is no need for hyperbole.

My recommendation was 3rd/4th/5th gen i5. Your links start at 6th gen. Irrespective of that, if you look at the 'sold' listings, for, say Optiplex 3020, you will see there are a good number in there under £100 which, even after springing for an SSD, would total less that £100. Yes there are lots for over £100 on buy-it-now, but if you wait for one to come up at auction you can pay significantly less than that, hence the remark about patience when I first suggested it.

I'm typing this on a Dell Latitude E6230 Laptop I paid the princely sum of £90 for 18 months ago. Laptops are carrying a bit of a premium right now because of the COVID-19/Work From Home situation, but there are still bargains to be had for those not in a hurry.

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

CoastingHatbox said:

Probably best not to encourage people to do things that are illegal.

"You are authorized to use this software only if you are properly licensed and the software has been properly activated with a genuine product key or by other authorized method."

You could try Linux. I'd recommend Debian with the Cinnamon desktop on old hardware. Look for the unofficial 'with non-free firmware' ISO for the least painful installation experience. You could also look at Ubuntu or Fedora. You might hit a couple of snagging issues which might require a bit of research to resolve, however your experience with it could be the total opposite of that. I've had older relatives using it (temporarily*) with no issues at all.

*I'd never force anyone onto it, but I've leant them laptops running Linux whilst repairing their own computers.

Who has done that here??

Probably better to not accuse people of doing things that you have made up entirely in your own head.

Best not accuse people of making things up.
Software piracy is theft and using a plaftform like MSE to encourage it is at best dubious.

forgotmyname said:

Just install windows 10, dont bother activating it.  It works without activating.

Downsides to not activating you dont get to change some personalisation settings, although there are other menus

to change them. Silly MS left the oold menus active although they are slowly working on that it seems.

After a while a nag message asks you to activate, you can ignore it. change the desktop wallpaper.

Downsides which maybe a bonus, MS wont spam you will lots of useless apps that you didnt ask for.  3rd update

in the past 2 months that changed my browser to Edge and installed Maps. No MS i Dont want either.

But you do get the security updates.

Where is the piracy? Please don't post nonsense. If the software works without a product key, using it does not amount to piracy nor illegal usage.

If they suggested modifying the software in order to bypass activation, then you might have a point. They didn't and you don't. Please desist from posting scaremongering nonsense.

It's not a issue. There are many roads to activating Windows 10 or you can leave it un-activated if you wish. Not activated doesn't equal illegal.

I challenge you to find ANY link from Microsoft that suggests using an yet un-activated Windows 10 installation amounts to piracy or illegality. That paragraph means nothing. Find even a single consumer on the whole of this earth who has been contacted because they are running an un-activated install of Windows 10.
On the contrary you will find articles detailing clearly that there are few restrictions in doing so. Microsoft's best effort to discourage it is to state that people using the Creation Tool should have a product key or licence. No different from the paragraph you posted. Yet, the software itself allows you to run it without a product key...forever. Hardly a mistake in the design.

So the OP can test the software to her heart's content before plumping for an inexpensive product key and you can keep your scaremongering to yourself.

No, this is not scaremongering.
It is, for example, point 5 in the Windows 10 OEM license:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/OEM/Windows/10/UseTerms_OEM_Windows_10_English.htm

The same terms are in the retail EULA.
If Windows is not activated, it's use is not authorized. Software Piracy is a breach of license. What you are advocating is therefore piracy. It is not a grey area, it is not nonsense.

There are evaluation versions of Windows and many other Microsoft products which anyone can use for testing and evaluation for a period of time to their hearts content, but these still require activation and have time restricted use.

The 'inexpensive' product keys are also illegal. They are OEM keys licensing Windows for use on a specific piece of hardware. What you choose to do in terms of using unlicensed software is your choice, but encouraging other people to breach software licenses is something I take a very dim view of, especially when there are alternatives.

Edited to condense into one post.

Again?
Almost everything you have written is wrong. Backwards again. The keys aren't necessarily OEM keys and you don't know that they are. So stop pretending that you do. 

Where did I suggest that she shouldn't activate it? You are becoming a crashing bore. I actually wrote that their will be no issue with activation; but it's easier to buy a key via eBay. 

Back to the Optiplex: What you actually wrote was 4 to 5 years old. That would be max Nov 2015.
3rd Gen 2012, 4th Gen 2013 and 5th Gen 2014. Not one within your range of 4 to 5 years old. Moving the goalposts or prepared to admit that you got it wrong?
I mentioned your tendency to exaggerate. There's no need; it might only send the uninitiated off on a wild goose chase.

As to the statement concerning the OP's Desktop not supporting SATA 3 and therefore you won't be able to notice the difference...
SSD benefit(on a boot drive) is not in headline sustained write speeds, but lots of little small read and writes and IOPS. Therein lies the benefit of DRAM, especially in smaller capacity drives such as 120 GB. You really need a deeper knowledge if you are going to advise people. Way too many statements presented as fact; when they are just your erroneous opinion.
Do a bit more reading and you will see that I am right.


Back to the OP's desktop: Who cares if it 8GB not "officially" supported? Some devices were released before larger capacity modules were released. That doesn't mean that the chipset cannot accept the larger module.
The device isn't supported by DELL at all anyway, so what does "official" have to do with it. It's down to the Chipset. So if it is supported, it is supported. Nothing to do with sometimes. You just have to be clear about the device in question. You appear to have skipped that part.

Please stop clogging up the thread with long winded and erroneous posts. It appears somewhat pedantic truth be told.

Microsoft, unofficially, doesn't care if you evaluate the software, but you do. Official this, official that. 

If someone chooses to evaluate the software on their home PC before purchasing a key, Microsoft won't bother you. If they are not bothered, why are you?

Nevertheless, activation is not an issue for the DELL, because of Royalty OEM.

If you think an SSD without DRAM is going to be a constraint with that CPU, I think you need to think again. I don't think IO Wait will be an issue no matter what SSD goes in it.

As for the 4/8 GB support, it depends on the characteristics of the RAM installed. If you've never been in a situation where you've found some memory modules will work and others don't whilst pushing the envelope like this, you've clearly not been around the block often enough.

OEMs are often selling systems with CPUs a generation or two old - just bought the wife a brand new Dell laptop which has a 3 generation old Intel CPU in it. It is a current model. It is often the case with the product lines they aim at businesses, as companies like parity in the hardware their internal IT teams support although it is becoming less common recently.

As for your views on licensing, no one is going to be particularly bothered if I set off on an amber light, but that doesn't mean I go around telling other people it's okay.

I think you need to go and nerd snipe somewhere else.

Those characteristics aren't an issue with this AMD chipset. Next time, just find out the relevant details, rather than giving out sub-optimal advice because you haven't bothered to check. I have...but waiting for the OP to confirm with the Service Tag.

Not I/O wait, but faster small read/write that makes the difference on an OS drive. So yes, DRAM is better for you, especially on the smaller drives.

I am telling people it's okay to install Windows 10 without a product key if they wish to evaluate it before purchasing a product key.
Any official Microsoft spokesperson can join the forum and rebut my statement if they wish to do so.

debitcardmayhem

@lonestarfan the question was I believe

"What operating system should I put on my quite old computer"

Short answer - try Windows 10 it should be fine to try and nothing to lose, if it works even slowly then stick in a SSD and then look on crucial uk to see what memory you can install.

HereToday

CoastingHatbox said:

HereToday said:

Not I/O wait, but faster small read/write that makes the difference on an OS drive. So yes, DRAM is better for you, especially on the smaller drives.

Thanks for amusing me with that little gem.
Have a nice life.

You REALLY should refrain from offering advice if you don't understand the subject. You can see that the SSD with DRAM is much faster at the kind of things that are important on an OS drive. 

jamesd

CoastingHatbox said:

The 'inexpensive' product keys are also illegal. They are OEM keys licensing Windows for use on a specific piece of hardware. 

That is not necessarily so. Some will be OEM keys being unlawfully distributed but others are retail keys that can be lawfully resold and used. The buyer can seek a refund or replacement if the activated version says OEM. I've bought the retail type myself for some things and used them as licensed.

It's of course wrong to claim that software running always means it has a licence. Providing downloads is a convenience for licensed customers, not necessarily a license to run longer than it takes to enter the licence key.

In some cases there's a very clear choice. Say MySQL, which comes in a downloadable community version with lots of open source licenses or an enterprise version that needs a commercial licence that must be purchased and uses some third party components that have licenses incompatible with the open source ones. Anyone can download either and if they choose the community version they are properly licensed if they follow one of the licenses included, which can mean running web sites with millions of users and hundreds of database servers. Do the same with the very, very similar enterprise version without having a licence and it'll run but it's copyright infringement of both MySQL and the third parties because that download doesn't include a license.

Sometimes people just don't know or perhaps don't like the various different ways that software can be distributed.

Regardless, this doesn't  matter if the OP has Windows 7 because that's an authorised Microsoft upgrade. If not they can just buy one of the retail keys from ebay.

jamesd

lonestarfan said:

Following a few difficulties when we needed emergency docs etc I need to improve our old computer I think. It’s Windows 7 vista home premium service pack 1. 32 bit. 3GB RAM. Dell dimension. AMD 64 x 2 Dual core processor 4000+. 2.10 GHZ.

Have you already tried the free ways to make a PC faster, like deleting unnecessary files (ordinary then system) and defragmenting the hard disk? Each of those is likely to take many hours to overnight the first time so don't worry if it seems to take forever.

Does the computer have an SD card slot or just USB? Adding a suitable card or USB drive and using it for ReadyBoost. No need to take anything apart and a £5 8GB drive is fine.

Some of the other suggestions like an SSD upgrade will produce bigger benefits but these are easy and cheap and might be enough.