Help! Have followed FAQ advice so far...but confused

terencedactyl

Hi all,

I received an NTK from PCS for a alleged violation on Gelderd Close in Leeds. The parking charge was issued for a short stop (under 10 minutes) on what I didn't realise was a private road. I read the FAQ and other peoples experiences and appealed on the grounds that:

1. The vehicle appears to be momentarily stationary, but as I understand things the guidelines you claim to adhere to (BPA) require a grace period of at least 10 minutes for the rider to have read the signs and agree to the contract that they set out. I can see no evidence from the letter I received as the registered keeper that the vehicle was stationary for more than 1 minute (looking at the time stamps on the photos on this website). Do you have any evidence that the motorcycle was there longer than 10 minutes?

2. I contend that you have failed to comply with third point (The period the car was parked) and so may be in breach of the POFA in issuing this NTK. [This refers to a list of requirements that the POFA requires to be included in a NTK]

I made no admission of driving and used a modified template I found on this forum which included the line: "Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle."

My confusion arises from PCS's response and I am unsure of how to proceed. The responses were - in order

1. A generic thank you saying that they will respond with 35 days, with a promise to endeavour to reply quicker - received on the day of the appeal

2. The following day I received the email that is causing my confusion. It reads

 

The [TICKET_NO] is not me redacting the message - it is as I received it. Option 2 was a pdf that basically rejected my appeal, and says

It carries on to explain that I can go down the POPLA route but will lose the right to the discounted amount. This also appears to say they are extending the discounted rate for 14 days but goes on to demand I pay the the non-discounted amount of £100 (in the original NTK they were demanding £60).

My question is do i take option 1 and await their response or am I expected to accept option 2? 

They have ignored my request for an explanation or images of the signage.

I know no one can tell me what to do but any advice on my best way forward would be much appreciated. Do I just go to a POPLA appeal now, wait for the response referred to in Option 1 or just pay? If I go down the POPLA route should I include something about the confusing replies I received?

KeithP

It's not clear, to me anyway, whether they have actually refused your appeal or not.

If they have not yet refused that appeal, and supplied a PoPLA code, then wait patiently for that to happen.

When you receive their appeal refusal letter with a PoPLA code, head over to the third post of the NEWBIES thread where you will discover how to create a winning PoPLA appeal.

Coupon-mad

 Do I just go to a POPLA appeal now?

Obviously yes, if the letter has a POPLA code in the heading or wherever.  It reads as though it does, so this is normal.  It is your rejection letter.  Of course £60 won't be offered again, this is what happens in every case.

Umkomaas

Please confirm the full name of PCS. There are many parking companies who have initialisations that are very similar. We don't want to be making assumptions. 

terencedactyl

Thanks for the responses.
I was under the impression we weren't supposed to name comapnies. PCS is Parking Control Solutions Ltd, of Leeds.
The pdf attached as Option 2 does contain a POPLA verification code, so I should go straight to the POPLA appeal process? What on earth is Option 1 all about?

Coupon-mad

I think this is a badly designed template letter and they were meant to choose which template paragraph to show you!  And they left it with both.

Redx

So forbidding signage , no offer of Parking , no consideration equals no contract , at best it's trespass only

terencedactyl

Thanks Redx :

So forbidding signage , no offer of Parking , no consideration equals no contract , at best it's trespass only

This sign was further up the street than where I stopped (I would have passed it when I turned around), does it constitute forbidding signage? If so do I make that the only thrust of my POPLA appeal or do I also mention grace periods and possible (though it may be stretching things) POFA non compliance?

Redx

you put everything bar the kitchen sink into a popla appeal , everything, you only need to slip one past the post to win, you may not know which that is until judgment day, neither will we

MalMonroe

I've had three parking charge notices over the years and haven't paid one.

That being said, I have never seen anything more confusing than this debacle! I agree with Coupon-mad, they should have sent you just one of those option emails, not both. 

The fact that the sign is halfway up the road and not at the entrance to it is very important. If you can take a photo from the entrance to the road, demonstrating where it is and where you were, that would help your POPLA appeal. If you didn't pass the sign, then how can you have violated anything? 

Signage was very important in my last Parking Charge Notice appeal. Together with the fact that my registration plates were not even visible in their photos. Of course the parking company rejected my appeal to them and so I had to go to POPLA. I took multiple photos of the parking notices which were small, with miniscule print on them - from all angles, demonstrating that they were impossible for drivers to see unless they went right up to them and peered upwards. Obviously, you won't have to do that but if you had gone past the sign they may have had a case. If the sign is halfway down the road then how are you supposed to know not to go down there until you reach said sign?

You may be interested to know that following that last fiasco, I wrote to DVLA complaining about the fact that they give out registration numbers to private parking companies and are handsomely rewarded. They advised me to write to the ICO (Information Commissioner's Office) who deal with data breaches, etc. and when I did they told me that they had been investigating the use of such data by private parking companies for quite a while and that they were as concerned as me that this was allowed to happen. 

Every so often the ICO writes to me to let me know that they have not forgotten about me and they are still investigating the matter (I've had three such letters now, it takes a long time!) and will let me have a copy of their report when it is ready. So there's hope for we motorists yet. I hope this practice is stopped sooner rather than later.

Coupon-mad

MalMonroe said:

Every so often the ICO writes to me to let me know that they have not forgotten about me and they are still investigating the matter (I've had three such letters now, it takes a long time!) and will let me have a copy of their report when it is ready. So there's hope for we motorists yet. I hope this practice is stopped sooner rather than later.

Would you mind sending me a copy of the email trail and if there is a particular caseworker of reference to quote?  I want to contact the ICO about a couple of PPC related matters shortly and want to make sure it hits the right target person, and if there is a general concern about PPCs use of data I'd like to add to it.

Was your complaint about the DVLA or about a parking firm?    Do pm me please.