Bitcoin

RichTips

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $3 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

RichTips

HansOndabush said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139. I value an asset that can be transmitted internationally in seconds, without being subject to censorship, and unexposed to the money printing of whatever nation state it happens to be sitting in at that moment. The censorship-resistant "public ledger with every transaction in every Bitcoin recorded and updated forever" makes this a reality. Guess I and everyone else who values Bitcoin are idiots.. Idiots who made what is currently the best punt on a new asset class in history.

Try using TransferWise. You can send currency around the world instantly and more cheaply than with bitcoin.

Unless they decide to put a hold on your account. And if you think that holds on funds are only ever deserved, you should perhaps browse this forum a little more widely.

HansOndabush

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

Yes it does however that does not compel me to speculate on a hexadecimal number.

RichTips

HansOndabush said:

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

Yes it does however that does not compel me to speculate on a hexadecimal number.

If that's all you're capable of seeing it as, then that's probably for the best.

eskbanker

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

It doesn't change the fundamental point, i.e. even if you consider that a 22% increase in a short timescale is 'massive', it's still a drop in the ocean when compared with some of the huge fluctuations in bitcoin valuation.

danm

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

It doesn't change the fundamental point, i.e. even if you consider that a 22% increase in a short timescale is 'massive', it's still a drop in the ocean when compared with some of the huge fluctuations in bitcoin valuation.

Pretty sure this does not show 22% of USD being printed in 6 months. It is YoY growth...so it grew 22% quicker this year. That is not quite the same is it.... 
i would say however, at least you have tried to be able to explain the movement of USD on an economic principle. Can you explain why yesterday BC went to $50K from $30K a few weeks back. What is the fundamental driver in price that also suggests its not going to reverse?
TSLA could sell its holding for a 20% gain tomorrow without telling anyone, Musk could tweet 'Sell' and we would likely see a 15% decline in value. That may be something; but it ain't investing, i'm not even sure its speculating given the amount of externalities that irrationally impact the price. 
I hold some Bitcoin - i am not ever going to try to rationalise it to someone else however because i don't think it can be

RichTips

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

It doesn't change the fundamental point, i.e. even if you consider that a 22% increase in a short timescale is 'massive', it's still a drop in the ocean when compared with some of the huge fluctuations in bitcoin valuation.

It's value proposition is largely derived from the fact that, whatever its fluctuations, it's value is not derived from the actions of a central authority. I would certainly not argue that the price of Bitcoin is stable. Who knows though, $1.5 Billion being held by Tesla, as well as other major institutional investments, may allow the period of price discovery (only 11 years so far) to begin to mellow out. 

HansOndabush

RichTips said:

HansOndabush said:

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

Yes it does however that does not compel me to speculate on a hexadecimal number.

If that's all you're capable of seeing it as, then that's probably for the best.

If you see anything else then maybe you should read the fable of The Emporor's New Clothes.

RichTips

HansOndabush said:

RichTips said:

HansOndabush said:

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

Yes it does however that does not compel me to speculate on a hexadecimal number.

If that's all you're capable of seeing it as, then that's probably for the best.

If you see anything else then maybe you should read the fable of The Emporor's New Clothes.

Yes, yes, and the automobile will never catch on because there aren't any gas stations and the roads are all designed for horses.

RichTips

danm said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

eskbanker said:

RichTips said:

If a friend of mine in the USA wanted to send my a £100 a few months ago it would have cost them $128. Now, due to the massive debasing of the currency by a centralized entity, it would cost them $139.

If you consider a shift of less than 10% in an exchange rate over a few months 'massive' then there must be some pretty extreme superlatives needed to describe the wild volatility of bitcoin valuations....

This chart demonstrates the "massive" I'm referring to. In 2020 the amount of US dollars in existence increased by $9 trillion. 22% of the total supply of USD was printed in the space of 6 months. Does that not seem like a pretty massive injection of new fiat, representing a pretty massive debasing of the world's reserve currency?

It doesn't change the fundamental point, i.e. even if you consider that a 22% increase in a short timescale is 'massive', it's still a drop in the ocean when compared with some of the huge fluctuations in bitcoin valuation.

Pretty sure this does not show 22% of USD being printed in 6 months. It is YoY growth...so it grew 22% quicker this year. That is not quite the same is it.... 
i would say however, at least you have tried to be able to explain the movement of USD on an economic principle. Can you explain why yesterday BC went to $50K from $30K a few weeks back. What is the fundamental driver in price that also suggests its not going to reverse?
TSLA could sell its holding for a 20% gain tomorrow without telling anyone, Musk could tweet 'Sell' and we would likely see a 15% decline in value. That may be something; but it ain't investing, i'm not even sure its speculating given the amount of externalities that irrationally impact the price. 
I hold some Bitcoin - i am not ever going to try to rationalise it to someone else however because i don't think it can be

US Money Supply - https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m1
Switch to 5 Year on the chart to make it obvious the massive amount of new money injected as a proportion of the total supply.
Regarding price as a result of fundamentals, fundamentally, nothing has changed in the Bitcoin network since a few months ago other than the length of the chain. Tesla seems to have provided a degree of legitimacy that has encouraged others to buy in.
I, possibly like you, believe it has long been fundamentally undervalued.