Advice of pruning small apple trees please

twopenny

So 2yrs ago I planted these and I know I should have pruned them last winter but they were so treasured as the first of a newly made garden from nothing I couldn't bring myself to do it.

I got 3 huge Coxs and 1 unsucessful Bramley.

The branches, to me, look too long to make a good shape and I'm getting no smaller ones off the main ones. They've grown away with vigour and If I don't improve the shape of the tree it will not only look poor but have few apples and may become top heavy.

My temptation is to take just 1/3 so I don't loose apples but I have a feeling I should bite the bullet and go further. How far should I go?

         

The trunk height is about 3ft on each.

Farway

You don't mention what root-stock these are on, do you know? That will determine just how vigorous they are

However now is a very good time to bite the bullet, you'll find lots on You Tube but assuming you want the traditional Goblet shaped open centre then those long shoots, except the leader, need at least 2/3 removing, forget fruit for now, spend the next year or so getting your trees in shape for the future

Once you have shortened the long shoots new shoots will sprout from them during summer, just let them grow away until around August, then prune these new growths back to one or two buds max

You then have a trunk, with some short branches coming off, with shorter stubs on these branches.

These shorter stubs are 2022 fruiting ones

PS, you can also cut the leader back if you want to keep the tree about head height, new shoots will grow but prune as above

twopenny

Thank you Faraway. I didn't know that about the fruiting branches. Never needed to master it because I had huge mature trees in my previous place.

I can't remember the rootstock as they were the first plants to go in the garden and as you can see it's still a work in progress at the back. M25 comes to mind but not sure if that's just what I was looking for. It's not on the lable. I was assured they wouldn't grow very big.

They weren't the best shape when i bought them but all I could get at the time.

Have been tempted to replace them with better versions (I have somewhere they could go) but the better ones will be more expensive.

theoretica

Bite the bullet and prune back hard.  I did exactly what you have done and didn't prune the first year, but then didn't prune hard enough the second year either.  The result was long thin branches which then divided near the tip and when they grew apples they are all weighted down and bent far too low.  Not good, and was a pain and slow to recover from.

twopenny

Glad to know it was a 'normal' thing to do. It was wonderful to get blossom last year - then they just kept growing upwards!

Yes, when I saw the size of the apples I knew I should take them off but didn't.

Not sure if they were so big because there were only a few or being a young tree. The ones given away at peoples gates are much smaller from old trees.

As soon as the weather dries up I'll get on to it. Wet and wet here and don't want to get a problem.

RAS

Hi, I hope it's not M25 rootstock as that's huge. But almost never used these days. Check Frank P Matthew's info pages.

Maybe M26 which is still substantial but can be kept to about one third the size. If you got Bramley, you need to develop a good strong framework to take the weight of fruit. Take 2/3rds of for a couple of years and cut anything thin back to three buds where it may develop into a fruiting spur.

Farway

The Bramley is a problem with pollination, needs two different varieties to pollinate it, which may be why it failed

If you have space get a James Greive, it'll pollinate most and is a tasty early apple as well

twopenny

Ras I'm pretty sure I got it wrong. They seem to be heading with pruning et al to about 6ft. I relied on the nursery to assure me they wouldn't grow large and seem about right for the space.

That's really helpful. I'll get on to it.

Farway, Interesting. At the moment I think the Bramley is in too cool and shady a spot so it's not entirely happy but I've moved it once because I wanted to get a small pond there which could also have affected it . So I'll have to mull it over now the beds are made and planted I could make adjustments.

Was just reading up on rootstocks and it looks like I was overcautious with spacing.

I like James Grieve, I like apples so happy to put another in.

RAS

Alternatively twopenny....
Given that you need to prune down the longer top growth on your Bramley anyway, find a grafter who can stick a bit of James Grieve on top of the Bramley. JG doesn't keep well but you'd get some early fruit before the Bramley was ready.

Check out local orchard groups; there'll probably be someone happy to help out and find the scion wood.

theoretica

Do you know if your neighbours have apples?  I only have one apple tree, but I checked what my neighbour's apple was to confirm pollination before I bought it.

twopenny

Ras wow I didn't expect that. I think it might be cheaper to buy a seperate tree but I'm interested to search around.

In my area we have apple days, where you can take your apples to be juiced at a village green or have them identified along with other things. That might be an avenue to explore. Sadly they were all cancelled this year.

Theoretica, in my immediate vacinity a definite maybe one dwarf one. Some have no plants at all. But I know there are a couple of Bramleys and one lady puts her surplus out. Unfortunately an elderly lady just moved in opposite takes most first thing!