Most efficient way to run underfloor heating

dllive

Thanks @matelodave but I cant see the pdf (the file path is on your local computer rather than an attachment to your post).
Im just trying to find out what version of console I have (easier said than done!!), so I think your file will answer that.

matelodave

I've resent it with a proper link

dllive

Ah! Ive just been out there again. Now I hodl down for 3 seconds on the menu screen I can edit more stuff!!
The DHW settings I have thusly (tweaked slightly as per your tips):
Max temp: 45 degrees (this was 50 degrees)
Max temp drop: 10
Max operation time: 90 minutes
Mode restriction: 30 minutes
(I cant see if its continuous or timed)

The Legionella settings I have thusly (tweaked slightly as per your tips):
Hot water temp: 60
Frequency: 14 days (it was 7 days)
Max operation time: 1 hour (it was 2 hours)
Duration of max temp: 30 minutes
Do you think the above is all good?
I still cant find the schedule screen (other than the one Ive already photographed). Ive looked at a few Youtube videos, but I dont see the same buttons as they show; and theyre not easy to follow because the console is in the garage! 

You say to reduce the comp. curve by 5 degrees. Am I doing that on the y axis or the x axis? I have 47 on the y axis and -30 on the x axis. You probably mean the Y axis because thats the flow temp?
Ive learnt more about my heating system in the past 5 hours than I have in 2 years!

dllive

matelodave said:

Has your manifold got it's own pump and bypass and are there manifold actuators fitted.What does the thermostat operate - the heating unit or just the manifold pump and actuators. Understanding how it all goes together makes a lot of differnce in working out the best way to set it up and tweak it (it took my a whole winter to get it running to my satisfaction)

Ive had to google what a 'manifold' is. This is under the stairs. You may be able to see Ive put a label for each zone (Snug, Kitchen, Dining Room).

Does that answer your questions about actuators and etc...? Hopefully gives you a better idea of what Im working with!

dllive

Mouldymeat3 said:

Transfer of heat is is related to the temp difference so a warm room will drain less heat from the floor. Our annual consumption is around 3800 kWh, nearly £500 on our current tariff.

Is your 3800kwh figure your delivered energy minus consumption energy?

Mouldymeat3 said:

Also be aware that the garden unit will have a crankcase heater of a couple of 100 watts in standby mode, adding 2 or 3 kWh a day when idle.

I wonder if that explains why the garage is always warm! The cylinder is obviously well insulated and the pipes have lagging. The 300l cylinder was fitted 2 years ago so is a new model. Sometimes I hang my washing in the garage because its so warm!

matelodave

go to your piccy 11 that shows the big 0 which is the compensation offset. if you change it to -5 it will move the whole compensation down by 5 degrees without altering the slope so you max temp should move from 46 to 41 at -3 degrees and the min temp also be shifted down which means that you average running temps will be about 5 degrees lower - Try it for a few day or a week to see it you get sufficient heating. 
I cant offer any help finding the schedule timer with the controller coz I haven't played with one although there are a couple of YouTube vids by both Mitsi and others, so worth a look have a shufti at this - .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6VpATOHbFU

You'll find that your hot water at 45 degrees will be at about the right temperature for showering without adding any cold but you may find it a bit cool for other things - it doesn't cause us a problem because we've got a dishwasher.

Your manifold controller is the same as mine - the room stats will operate the actutators (the white cylinders) and enable the water to flow through the relevant heating loops. The red things are flow adjusters and allow you to adjust the flow through the loops - there's an indicator on the actuators which show when they are open and closed. The flow meters will drop when there's water flowing - look at the markings and it will tell you the flow rate. The actuators take about five minutes to open and close so don't expect an instant response when the stat operates.
I'm not sure about the dial, its either a thermometer which indicates the flow temperture or a pressure gauge to show the system pressure - both my manifolds have a temperature gauge (I have two manifolds, two controllers, eight thermostats and 16 floor loops)

Both of my controllers also have a signal wire which enables the heatpump circulating pump when a stat calls for heat so the heatpump doesn't actually control the room temperature, just the water temperature.
I dont know whether yours does the same (although there's a boiler & pump light on the controller, it doesn't mean that it's connected or activates the pump - it depends how how system is configured)

Mouldymeat3

dllive said:

Is your 3800kwh figure your delivered energy minus consumption energy?

This is our delivered energy. It's only a tiny bungalow, well insulated. Also we don't use the main oven, its another store cupboard! We use a multi-function microwave. The induction hob probably saves a bit too.

I wonder if that explains why the garage is always warm! The cylinder is obviously well insulated and the pipes have lagging. The 300l cylinder was fitted 2 years ago so is a new model. Sometimes I hang my washing in the garage because its so warm!

The garden unit I refer to is the lump outside with the large fan, where your legend plate is attached. The compressor inside this cabinet, a few sizes larger than the one in you domestic fridge, will probably have a heated crankcase to drive any trapped refrigerant gas out of the oil. When the compressor starts, the crankcase pressure falls allowing any entrained gas to boil and froth the oil leading to poor lubrication or even carry-over. This is why the commissioning notes say leave for 24 hours before the first start. In summer I turn it off completely, saving a few kWh, remembering to wait to restart it.  I also squeak.

matelodave

There's not much you can do about the crankcase heater - the only way to disable it is to turn the whole system off .
Ours consumes 120w which is just under 3kwh a day, not a lot but over a year it's over 1000kwh = about £150 (depending on your tariff).

I do like Mouldy and switch it off and just turn it on for an hour or so a day for hot water during the summer, but it's on permanently from about September to April so I'm possibly saving around £40-£50 a year. Although the hotwater tank has an immersion heater (in addition to a 6kw backup heater in the main unit) it's fully controlled by the heatpump controller.  I cant operate it independently without rewiring. It also doesn't have a proper thermostat, just an overtemperature cut-out.

TBH dont get too bothered about some of the clever bits - just get the flow temps down a bit and sort out the external controls and leave the heatpump to get on with it.

I am interested in your "remote control" for upstairs - can you put up a piccy as I'm guessing that it's just a wireless thermostat. 

dllive

matelodave said:

I am interested in your "remote control" for upstairs - can you put up a piccy as I'm guessing that it's just a wireless thermostat. 

Here it is @matelodave . In fact, its the one link in the chain that I do know how to set. (Ive programmed what temp I want for each part of the day). But the 'stand' is a piddly plastic thing so the thing just keeps falling over!! So I keep it on a shelf in the spare bedroom!!  Ive googled it, and apparently everyone complains of the same thing!
Is there a thermostat in this unit? In other words, when I program it to be 17 degrees at 6pm; is the temperature relative to wherever this device is? (If so Ill make sure its not on a cold window shelf!)



Yesterday I took a few more photos for you, just so you know what Im working with:

I dont know what all the components are, but the garage is always strangely warm! All the pipes are lagged, and the 300l tank is obviously well insulated. Perhaps thats just normal.

Ive just found a video showing how to schedule the DHW/heating. Apparently you have to set the DMH to 'timer'. Only then will it show you the timer settings!! (makes sense I suppose! But explains why I couldnt see them yesterday).

So it looks like my DHW and space heating is just constantly on. Our routine is to perhaps have a shower around lunchtime, possibly a bath in the evening. And we do the washing up around 6pm. Do you think the DHW should be 45 degrees and come on for an hour at 4pm. Do you think that would suffice? (As a starting point, Ill obviously tweak as I go, but I dont even know what a reasonable starting point is!)

Regards the heating, should that be on constantly, and then use the TRVs on the rads upstairs and the timers on the wall units downstairs to control the temp? Or should I set the timer on the Ecodan in a similar fashion to the DHW?

(Sorry, I know this is basic stuff.)

dllive

In this video, they say to not use the timer setting. I should leave it on ALL the time. This is more efficient, as it means the heating will only come on when needed (2:56): https://youtu.be/Jyx7Mod0FLM?t=176 . 

But how does it know when its needed? According to the timing schedule on my Salus and the downstairs wall units? And when I turn the shower on? 

So perhaps I shouldnt touch the timing schedule on the Ecodan!?