Job offer withdrawn due to insufficient detail in references

HerefordAl

Hi all. First post here, but cant seem to find the info I am after anywhere else.

A month ago, I was offered pretty much my dream job - Child Safeguarding Coordinator for a network of GP Surgeries.

The basic story to present is as follows:

- I applied for a job as a Safeguarding Coordinator, which I was conditionally offered on 23rd October after 2 detailed interviews.
- The HR Officer in charge of my appointment was absent due to Coronavirus isolation, but I completed the pre-employment check forms, scanned them in and e-mailed them to her. I visited the office on 3rd November to drop all my ID paperwork (Passport, etc) off.
- I was cleared by the Occupational Health Team on 15th November and I received my Enhanced DBS on 18th November.
- On 23rd November, I received a "By 9AM" letter from the head of HR explaining that my pre-employment checks were unsatisfactory, and the conditional offer of employment was being withdrawn. I e-mailed/phoned straight away, but was told I would be contacted by letter. In the meantime, I noticed the job had been re-advertised. When I queried this, they removed the advert immediately.
- Eventually, I received an e-mail from the head of HR saying that the offer was withdrawn due to insufficient information (other than standard dates, etc) received in the references, and that they needed more detail due to the Safeguarding matter of the role.
- I contacted my previous line manager (NHS) and another line manager (4.5 years from a Youth Work job working with vulnerable young adults), who agreed to provide a more thorough reference if requested.
- I informed the Head of HR that this would be an option to resolve matters, as many organisations only use a standard template when responding to reference requests. I provided her with their contact details.
- She informed me that the matter was considered closed.
- Within 30mins of that e-mail, they re-advertised the job.

Is there anything I can do regarding this? I find it incredibly unfair that I have had a job offer withdrawn through no fault of my own, let alone when I have provided them with recourse to gather the information needed. I turned down 2 other roles to accept this one, so I am now back to square one of the job hunting game.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Al

Undervalued

HerefordAl said:

Hi all. First post here, but cant seem to find the info I am after anywhere else.

A month ago, I was offered pretty much my dream job - Child Safeguarding Coordinator for a network of GP Surgeries.

The basic story to present is as follows:

- I applied for a job as a Safeguarding Coordinator, which I was conditionally offered on 23rd October after 2 detailed interviews.
- The HR Officer in charge of my appointment was absent due to Coronavirus isolation, but I completed the pre-employment check forms, scanned them in and e-mailed them to her. I visited the office on 3rd November to drop all my ID paperwork (Passport, etc) off.
- I was cleared by the Occupational Health Team on 15th November and I received my Enhanced DBS on 18th November.
- On 23rd November, I received a "By 9AM" letter from the head of HR explaining that my pre-employment checks were unsatisfactory, and the conditional offer of employment was being withdrawn. I e-mailed/phoned straight away, but was told I would be contacted by letter. In the meantime, I noticed the job had been re-advertised. When I queried this, they removed the advert immediately.
- Eventually, I received an e-mail from the head of HR saying that the offer was withdrawn due to insufficient information (other than standard dates, etc) received in the references, and that they needed more detail due to the Safeguarding matter of the role.
- I contacted my previous line manager (NHS) and another line manager (4.5 years from a Youth Work job working with vulnerable young adults), who agreed to provide a more thorough reference if requested.
- I informed the Head of HR that this would be an option to resolve matters, as many organisations only use a standard template when responding to reference requests. I provided her with their contact details.
- She informed me that the matter was considered closed.
- Within 30mins of that e-mail, they re-advertised the job.

Is there anything I can do regarding this? I find it incredibly unfair that I have had a job offer withdrawn through no fault of my own, let alone when I have provided them with recourse to gather the information needed. I turned down 2 other roles to accept this one, so I am now back to square one of the job hunting game.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Al

Sorry but the short answer is no.

Unless you can show that the real reason for turning you down is unlawful discrimination (e.g race, gender, religion etc) they can choose not to employ you for any other reason - or no reason at all.

Whether a reference is satisfactory (or sufficiently detailed) is in the eye of the beholder. If the reference said anything that is provably untrue (or deliberately misleading) you might have a claim against the provider of the reference.

With a very few exceptions (this might be one) a former employer is not obliged to provide a reference at all and cannot be forced to expand on any reference they do provide.

HerefordAl

Thanks mate, much appreciated. So gutted though ☹️

Manxman_in_exile

That's bad luck.

I'm a little surprised that GP surgeries do that as it wasn't my experience throughout the wider NHS.  Whenever I was involved in recruiting staff in the NHS I think the usual practice was always to get references pre-interview, because we didn't want to go through the faff of interviewing half a dozen people, deciding who to appoint, and then finding the references were unsatisfactory in some way and having to start recruiting again.  I'd have thought this made even more sense in a safeguarding role where references could be make or break.

Yes - I'm aware of the arguments against doing it that way; yes - I know GP surgeries aren't "really" NHS; and no - I don't know if the NHS still works this way.

But if employers are all going to go down the route of supplying only a basic reference along the lines of "I can comfirm Mr/Mrs X was employed by us from yyyyyy to zzzzzz" this is going to be a problem if prospective employers need more.

TELLIT01

It won't help for that job, but you might consider contacting the surgery for clairification of what additional information was required in order that you don't find yourself in the same situation with a future application.

Brynsam

TELLIT01 said:

It won't help for that job, but you might consider contacting the surgery for clairification of what additional information was required in order that you don't find yourself in the same situation with a future application.

Just don't expect a reply.

What looks likely here is that the surgery failed to ask for the information they needed at the time references were requested - your referees have already confirmed they were happy to supply more details, so that conclusion is rather hard to avoid.

If it's not too late, you could always try re-applying. What do you have to lose?

HerefordAl

Hi all, thanks for the responses. For clarification, the role would be working in a GP Surgery, but the post was funded by one of these quasi-private companies that contract a lot of local healthcare services; They are essentially a management/HR/Finance organisation for a network of 20 local GP Surgeries within our NHS Trust area. I have reapplied for the post after they advertised it again last night.

So the GP Team who interviewed me were very impressed and offered me the job by phone 30mins after my second interview. I got contacted then by the Management organisation to fill out all the usual paperwork, which I did. The references were then sent back to the Management team and all (apart from a detailed one from my Youth Work job manager of 4.5 years) essentially gave the basic "He worked here from x to y and this was his job title and this is why he left" spiel that is commonplace. I don't think the GP Surgery would have had any say in the matter. All my DBS came back clean as expected and I was cleared by the occupational health people.

I am just utterly stumped as to why they couldn't go back for more information, even when I had provided them with the contact details for the references again, including my most recent manager in the NHS. I have never had anything like this happen to me before and find it completely bewildering. It has left me feeling extremely down because, as mentioned, I turned down 2 other jobs and several interview opportunities after accepting what was in essence, my dream job using my Degree in Child & Adolescent Mental Health.

74jax

HerefordAl said:

I am just utterly stumped as to why they couldn't go back for more information, even when I had provided them with the contact details for the references again, including my most recent manager in the NHS. I have never had anything like this happen to me before and find it completely bewildering. It has left me feeling extremely down because, as mentioned, I turned down 2 other jobs and several interview opportunities after accepting what was in essence, my dream job using my Degree in Child & Adolescent Mental Health.

Hi I know it's only your first thread, so just in case you haven't been 'lurking' on this board it's a good idea to not consider you have the job until you have a signed unconditional job offer.  
We advise on this board not to hand your current notice in until you are in possession of this too.  It's hard, I understand, especially when you feel you could potentially mess an employer about, but as you have found - you are now on the receiving end of being messed around and have come out with no job, having been offered 3. 
I really feel for you in such circumstances, but they have clearly made their minds up, and quickly too.   
Good luck and I'm sure having been offered 3 jobs you won't be long in waiting for the 4th.

bap98189

It sounds like this HR Manager is being an !!!!!!. We have had similar situations (usually referees who have not replied) and at the very least we would call the candidate and ask them to nudge their referee along or give us a contact for another person who can act as their referee.

I would write or phone someone at the GP surgery who interviewed you and explain the situation. I suspect they are not aware what has happened. Who knows they may be able to sort the situation out.

General_Grant

Perhaps the HR person who has rejected the references had someone in mind but wasn't around to force them on the practice.  Hope I'm wrong and you can proceed with the applcation this time.

Manxman_in_exile

Yeah - I would reapply too.

Like TELLIT01 I'd be inclined to ask in what way your references were deficient, although like Brynsam I wouldn't be surprised if you get no reply as I also suspect they didn't specify sufficiently what detail they wanted.  It may be that that your former NHS trust's HR policy is not to give any more than a basic reference anyway, but if you find out what it is exactly that your prospective employer wants, you might be able to find a way forward.  I mean, if they want info from your former employer regarding your suitability for a safeguarding post, they ought to spell that out in the reference request.  How do NHS trusts appoint staff to posts involving vulnerable clients if they only get basic references from other NHS trusts?  But I wouldn't discount some sort of !!!!!!-up by the recruiter who may not be experienced in filling these sort of positions.

If you don't get appointed, can you now do a SAR under GDPR to try to trace what the problem was?

(Don't read this - too boring, but it explains why I'm always interested in problems with references - My first NHS job was a temporary fixed term clerical post.  On the day of the interview we were told they'd make a decision that day.  When I'd heard nothing after a week I called them and they said they still hadn't decided(!).  A couple of days later they offered me the job.  A couple of months into the job my line manager had a word with me:  "You need to talk with your last referee" he said.  He explained that on the day of the interview they still hadn't received a written reference from my last employer ( a county council) and had telephoned them.  The manager they spoke to gave me the worst reference they'd ever heard.  Fortunately, the interview panel realised that the reference made no sense in respect of the candidate they'd interviewed and asked again for a written reference - which when received was excellent and I got the job!  Never found out what the problem was but on complaining to my former head of service I got a grovelling apology and promise it wouldn't happen again!   Then, when my fixed term NHS job ended I applied for a susbstantive job at a neighbouring NHS unit.  A couple of hours after the interview the senior HR manager from the unit which interviewed me stormed into the department where I worked and burst into the department manager's office.  Apparently the department manager had been "forgetting" even after several requests over several days to give me a reference, and the HR manager refused to leave his office until he had a reference in his hands.  I worked in the NHS happily for 25 years but it was a strange place sometimes).