SEISS 3 "significant reduction in your trading profits"

justwhat

Jeremy535897 said:

. Any business closed over the whole of November due to government legislation on coronavirus is almost certain to meet this test.

No because the property grants more that compensated some people for a month closure. Some people have doubled there profit this year. Some small cafe's have been making a mint doing deliveries. 

justwhat

hunnie said:

We were closed during November to follow guidelines, so have applied for the 3rd SEISS and have received confirmation that it is to be paid.
But have to say with all the SEISS and the grants for small businesses issued by the councils, we will be over and above for profits this year compared to last year.

Don't worry about it you will get an opportunity to pay it back at a later date.
Out of interest how much are you over? , you could always use it for deductible expenditure depending on the business you are in.

Jeremy535897

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

. Any business closed over the whole of November due to government legislation on coronavirus is almost certain to meet this test.

No because the property grants more that compensated some people for a month closure. Some people have doubled there profit this year. Some small cafe's have been making a mint doing deliveries. 

A shop that is closed still has fixed costs that are likely to absorb a significant proportion, if not all, of the grants. If any modest surplus is as good as what they normally make, they should find another line of work. There may be some businesses that are better off shut, but it doesn't say much for them.

justwhat

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

A shop that is closed still has fixed costs that are likely to absorb a significant proportion, if not all, of the grants. If any modest surplus is as good as what they normally make, they should find another line of work. There may be some businesses that are better off shut, but it doesn't say much for them.

Not if you own the property or properties. The grants were 10-25k and some places stayed open,did deliveries or sold online . Many ran with skeleton staff. Some ran with skeleton staff even if they did not need to as the .gov was paying 80% of wages.
There is a good few peeps that have done ok out of it.  

Jeremy535897

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

justwhat said:

Jeremy535897 said:

A shop that is closed still has fixed costs that are likely to absorb a significant proportion, if not all, of the grants. If any modest surplus is as good as what they normally make, they should find another line of work. There may be some businesses that are better off shut, but it doesn't say much for them.

Not if you own the property or properties. The grants were 10-25k and some places stayed open,did deliveries or sold online . Many ran with skeleton staff. Some ran with skeleton staff even if they did not need to as the .gov was paying 80% of wages.
There is a good few peeps that have done ok out of it.  

The hospitality venues I know reckon that the loss of all the regular Christmas bookings is in itself reduced activity that will significantly reduce trading profits, even without the forced closures, but no doubt if you look, you will find some normally unprofitable businesses that are better off with grants, closed doors and takeaways. That is why I said "almost certain".

I am not sure what point you are making regarding skeleton staff. CJRS can only be claimed for hours not worked, and has to be paid to staff.

justwhat

Jeremy535897 said:

I am not sure what point you are making regarding skeleton staff. CJRS can only be claimed for hours not worked, and has to be paid to staff.

Some of our suppliers/manufacturers  are / were running with skeleton staff / minimum workforce and still maintained continuity with supplies.  There was no need for some people to be furloughed.

.

Grumpy_chap

justwhat said:

Some of our suppliers/manufacturers  are / were running with skeleton staff / minimum workforce and still maintained continuity with supplies.  There was no need for some people to be furloughed.

If a business is operating with reduced staff but achieving the "normal" level of trade, one can only assume the managers of that business are considering redundancies for the staff still furloughed.  If a business is operating with reduced staff but managing to meet a reduced demand, then those still on furlough may have hope.

In most cases, a business forced to close will suffer a significant drop in profits.  Other than "no profits anyway", it is possible to come up with examples where that might not be the case.  We have a local company that opens a seasonal shop every year selling real Christmas trees.  This year, the opening date was advertised as 16th November, which was obviously delayed.  Although the number of trading days has been reduced, it is quite possible that this shop will sell just as many Christmas trees but they will just be on display for shorter time in people's houses.

jadex

Jeremy535897 said:

There may be some businesses that are better off shut, but it doesn't say much for them.

like for instance second homes flipped into "holiday lets" - reports are there that grants (like £10k for a business with a property) for second home owners (pretending to be a holiday businesses) are way more than their usual profits from compulsory 70 days of lets

Jeremy535897

jadex said:

Jeremy535897 said:

There may be some businesses that are better off shut, but it doesn't say much for them.

like for instance second homes flipped into "holiday lets" - reports are there that grants (like £10k for a business with a property) for second home owners (pretending to be a holiday businesses) are way more than their usual profits from compulsory 70 days of lets

Apart from the modest amounts of discretionary grants, to get the property based business grant of £10,000 your holiday home had to be on the rating list at 11 March 2020, which meant it had to be treated as a proper holiday let. See https://www.gov.uk/introduction-to-business-rates/self-catering-and-holiday-let-accommodation
 
Most people who have a second home that they sometimes let will be paying council tax.  I suspect the stories of second homes "flipped" into holiday lets are exaggerated, not least because the "flipping" would have had to happen well before the grants were announced, although no doubt the incentive to apply for rating increased when councils started charging full council tax or more on second homes.