Long Term Sickness LGPS

ashpan

Ive been off work since May with a combination of issues, im still getting full pay and don't think im going to recover much in the next few months, sufficient to return to work as im still in pain which is unpredictable
 im due to have a phone meeting with Occupational Health soon and then a conversation with my manager 
and she has mentioned 'capability' and also retirement on ill health grounds
I have no idea what all this means, i don't really want to be dismissed due to being incapable but if this means i can access my pension early then its ok.  Im 63 next year.
Ive been on full pay for 6. months and due to reduce to half pay soon and can manage on this but if possible id rather take my pension early if i can
Anyone know whats involved?

Another_Saver

I think in your circumstances, specific advice from a union rep, discussing with LGPS, employee assistance, pensions advisory service etc. would be more helpful to you than the kind of generic information people in the forum can help with.
This page from the LGPS site explains about ill health early retirement (https://www.lgpsmember.org/tol/thinking-leaving-illhealth.php)
Put simply, if you've been in the job at least 2 years and occ health think you wont be able to do the job before your normal pension age, you may be able to retire with a better pension than if you chose to retire early (they reduce the pension by 4-5% every year you take it early to reflect the fact they're having to pay it out for a year longer).
E.g. say your pension statement says you'll get £10,000 a year from age 66, and you retire now at 63, you'll get about £8,500 instead (the exact reduction is more complicated, that's just to give you a rough idea). With Ill health early retirement, you could retire on £10k now, maybe more, but read the website for full details.
You have nothing to lose by going down this route, and potentially a better pension to gain, not to mention retiring voluntarily on good terms as opposed to potentially eventually being dismissed on capability grounds and having to claim your pension early.
Mention it in the call with occ health and ask them what the process is, and discuss with line manager.

Also I would Contact HMRC either by phone or by setting up a government gateway account to check your national insurance record and make sure you have enough qualifying years to get the maximum state pension.

ashpan

This is really helpful information, I'd rather end on good terms, but I believe it's difficult to meet the criteria to retire on ill health grounds. I'll discuss it with my union, and occupational health today. Thanks again

DiggerUK

I don't know what the arrangements are now, but it used to be the case that if you were 'medically retired' then ten years was added to your pensionable service.
In your case that would mean your pension could be worked out as if you had worked until retirement age.
As has been suggested, you need to get in touch with your union for advice..._

Silvertabby

ashpan said:

Ive been off work since May with a combination of issues, im still getting full pay and don't think im going to recover much in the next few months, sufficient to return to work as im still in pain which is unpredictable
 im due to have a phone meeting with Occupational Health soon and then a conversation with my manager 
and she has mentioned 'capability' and also retirement on ill health grounds
I have no idea what all this means, i don't really want to be dismissed due to being incapable but if this means i can access my pension early then its ok.  Im 63 next year.
Ive been on full pay for 6. months and due to reduce to half pay soon and can manage on this but if possible id rather take my pension early if i can
Anyone know whats involved?

It depends on what your HR really mean by 'capability'.  Worse case scenario is that they mean 'dismissal on grounds of ill health'.  If that were to happen then, yes, you could immediately access your pension - but it would be reduced for early payment.

It's worth going through the occupational health procedure to see if ill health is a possibility.  In view of your age, even the lesser Tier 2 would be better than taking your benefits voluntarily.

Very briefly:

Tier 1.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for any work before SPA (66).
Benefits enhanced to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Tier 2.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for work in the next 3 years.
Benefits enhanced by 25% of the period to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Even Tier 3 would be better than taking your pension voluntarily.  No enhancement, and may have to go through a further occ health review with the possibility that benefits would be stopped (then claimed under voluntary retirement terms), but initially paid without any early retirement reductions.

Another_Saver wasn't quite right when calculating the early retirement reductions.  He said that £10K forecast at NRA (66) would be reduced by approx 15% if taken at 63.  Yes and no, as this doesn't factor in the loss of 3 years pension accrual.  This would drop a £10K forecast at 66 to more like £7K (+) at 63.

ashpan

Silvertabby said:

ashpan said:

Ive been off work since May with a combination of issues, im still getting full pay and don't think im going to recover much in the next few months, sufficient to return to work as im still in pain which is unpredictable
 im due to have a phone meeting with Occupational Health soon and then a conversation with my manager 
and she has mentioned 'capability' and also retirement on ill health grounds
I have no idea what all this means, i don't really want to be dismissed due to being incapable but if this means i can access my pension early then its ok.  Im 63 next year.
Ive been on full pay for 6. months and due to reduce to half pay soon and can manage on this but if possible id rather take my pension early if i can
Anyone know whats involved?

It depends on what your HR really mean by 'capability'.  Worse case scenario is that they mean 'dismissal on grounds of ill health'.  If that were to happen then, yes, you could immediately access your pension - but it would be reduced for early payment.

It's worth going through the occupational health procedure to see if ill health is a possibility.  In view of your age, even the lesser Tier 2 would be better than taking your benefits voluntarily.

Very briefly:

Tier 1.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for any work before SPA (66).
Benefits enhanced to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Tier 2.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for work in the next 3 years.
Benefits enhanced by 25% of the period to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Even Tier 3 would be better than taking your pension voluntarily.  No enhancement, and may have to go through a further occ health review with the possibility that benefits would be stopped (then claimed under voluntary retirement terms), but initially paid without any early retirement reductions.

Another_Saver wasn't quite right when calculating the early retirement reductions.  He said that £10K forecast at NRA (66) would be reduced by approx 15% if taken at 63.  Yes and no, as this doesn't factor in the loss of 3 years pension accrual.  This would drop a £10K forecast at 66 to more like £7K (+) at 63.

Thank you, with regards to Tier 3 - does this mean i just get my work pension 3 years earlier without any reductions for retiring early?

Silvertabby

ashpan said:

Silvertabby said:

ashpan said:

Ive been off work since May with a combination of issues, im still getting full pay and don't think im going to recover much in the next few months, sufficient to return to work as im still in pain which is unpredictable
 im due to have a phone meeting with Occupational Health soon and then a conversation with my manager 
and she has mentioned 'capability' and also retirement on ill health grounds
I have no idea what all this means, i don't really want to be dismissed due to being incapable but if this means i can access my pension early then its ok.  Im 63 next year.
Ive been on full pay for 6. months and due to reduce to half pay soon and can manage on this but if possible id rather take my pension early if i can
Anyone know whats involved?

It depends on what your HR really mean by 'capability'.  Worse case scenario is that they mean 'dismissal on grounds of ill health'.  If that were to happen then, yes, you could immediately access your pension - but it would be reduced for early payment.

It's worth going through the occupational health procedure to see if ill health is a possibility.  In view of your age, even the lesser Tier 2 would be better than taking your benefits voluntarily.

Very briefly:

Tier 1.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for any work before SPA (66).
Benefits enhanced to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Tier 2.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for work in the next 3 years.
Benefits enhanced by 25% of the period to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Even Tier 3 would be better than taking your pension voluntarily.  No enhancement, and may have to go through a further occ health review with the possibility that benefits would be stopped (then claimed under voluntary retirement terms), but initially paid without any early retirement reductions.

Another_Saver wasn't quite right when calculating the early retirement reductions.  He said that £10K forecast at NRA (66) would be reduced by approx 15% if taken at 63.  Yes and no, as this doesn't factor in the loss of 3 years pension accrual.  This would drop a £10K forecast at 66 to more like £7K (+) at 63.

Thank you, with regards to Tier 3 - does this mean i just get my work pension 3 years earlier without any reductions for retiring early?

Yes.  In theory, Tier 3 is only paid for a limited time as the expectation is that you will recover and be fit for work in the near future.  Can't say for sure, but my gut feeling is that this is unlikely to happen in view of your age.

Even if it did cease, you would be able to re-claim your pension on normal retirement grounds - by which time the early retirement reduction will be much less than the current 3 years.

Another_Saver

Silvertabby said:

ashpan said:

Ive been off work since May with a combination of issues, im still getting full pay and don't think im going to recover much in the next few months, sufficient to return to work as im still in pain which is unpredictable
 im due to have a phone meeting with Occupational Health soon and then a conversation with my manager 
and she has mentioned 'capability' and also retirement on ill health grounds
I have no idea what all this means, i don't really want to be dismissed due to being incapable but if this means i can access my pension early then its ok.  Im 63 next year.
Ive been on full pay for 6. months and due to reduce to half pay soon and can manage on this but if possible id rather take my pension early if i can
Anyone know whats involved?

It depends on what your HR really mean by 'capability'.  Worse case scenario is that they mean 'dismissal on grounds of ill health'.  If that were to happen then, yes, you could immediately access your pension - but it would be reduced for early payment.

It's worth going through the occupational health procedure to see if ill health is a possibility.  In view of your age, even the lesser Tier 2 would be better than taking your benefits voluntarily.

Very briefly:

Tier 1.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for any work before SPA (66).
Benefits enhanced to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Tier 2.  Occ health confirm that you are unlikely to be fit for work in the next 3 years.
Benefits enhanced by 25% of the period to SPA and paid without any reductions for early payment.

Even Tier 3 would be better than taking your pension voluntarily.  No enhancement, and may have to go through a further occ health review with the possibility that benefits would be stopped (then claimed under voluntary retirement terms), but initially paid without any early retirement reductions.

Another_Saver wasn't quite right when calculating the early retirement reductions.  He said that £10K forecast at NRA (66) would be reduced by approx 15% if taken at 63.  Yes and no, as this doesn't factor in the loss of 3 years pension accrual.  This would drop a £10K forecast at 66 to more like £7K (+) at 63.

My mistake, I meant the statement of pension accrued to date not forecast 🤦‍♂️

Neasy

Hi there, 
I don't know how long you've been a member of the LGPS, but it may be that there are transitional provisions that apply to you - see  http://lgpslibrary.org/assets/statgui/ew/20140917IHG.pdf particularly p. 23. I'm no LGPS expert, so I don't know what exact effect this would have.

ashpan

So for clarity - if i was to retire at this age of 62 on the grounds of ill health with 3.5 years to wait until my school pension, tier 3 would mean that i would get my pension early (which i can take no anyway) with no addition for ill health.  Im unsure then as to what the benefits would be of going down the ill health retirement route?
If im still not well enough to return to work at the moment, can i be sacked on the grounds of capability? That seems pretty unfair if so, there's a chance that my condition may improve in the next few months and i can get treatment to prevent a recurrence in April (after I've been off for over 12 months) Does my employer have to take this into account and give me extra time to recover?
thanks again

Silvertabby

ashpan said:

So for clarity - if i was to retire at this age of 62 on the grounds of ill health with 3.5 years to wait until my school pension, tier 3 would mean that i would get my pension early (which i can take no anyway) with no addition for ill health.  Im unsure then as to what the benefits would be of going down the ill health retirement route?
If im still not well enough to return to work at the moment, can i be sacked on the grounds of capability? That seems pretty unfair if so, there's a chance that my condition may improve in the next few months and i can get treatment to prevent a recurrence in April (after I've been off for over 12 months) Does my employer have to take this into account and give me extra time to recover?
thanks again

Dismissal on the grounds of ill health can't be ruled out.  If that happened, then you would be able to access your pension straight away, but subject to reductions for early payment.

The advantage of Tier 3 is that, although there is no enhancement, neither is there any reduction for early payment.  The disadvantage of Tier 3 is that it could be reviewed and stopped after 18 months.  If that happened, then you would just re-apply for payment of your benefits on normal retirement terms.

Have you asked for an Occ Health referral?