Care home fees - what do I do?

badmemory

Some of the threads on here are quite scary when you are already in your mid 70s & think you are completely with it & know what you are doing financially.  I need to live at home until my mid 90s - long story we won't go into here.  But it does worry me that I may lose it a little or fall into the hands of someone unscrupulous.  It just shows how careful we all need to be.  No-one I know knows how much I have apart from the house apart from my sister & my son who lives with me & tries to wrap me in bubblewrap.  Hopefully he will protect me from any foolishness I may become subject to.

Keep_pedalling

 As you do not have LPA in place it is likely that the LA will need to take over her finances as a corporate appointee. If that happens then you won’t really need to get involved in recovering the debt, as far as fees are concerned. If it is still outstanding when she dies then it will fall to her executor to sort.

elsien

Keep_pedalling said:

 As you do not have LPA in place it is likely that the LA will need to take over her finances as a corporate appointee. If that happens then you won’t really need to get involved in recovering the debt, as far as fees are concerned. If it is still outstanding when she dies then it will fall to her executor to sort.

Not necessarily. My LA never acts as corporate appointee. The preference is for a family member to act as DWP appointee/apply for deputyship if suitable, willing and able. Otherwise it’s a paid appointee via Penderels/age uk/whoever has the contract at the time. And a paid solicitor if there are enough assets to warrant a deputyship. The appointees manage benefits; they would not chase debts.
But either way a family member is certainly the starting point because a) most people would prefer someone they know and trust and b) the fees for managing the money comes from the person themselves so there is a cost implication of a professional service. 

Sea_Shell

poppystar said:

I’m concerned that a bank was happy to make such a large loan under these circumstances and with no formal agreement on repayment, even more so if, as you think might be the case, they took her to the bank to get the transfer made. 

As you don’t have LPA the bank may not speak with you about this though. 

As I've read it the BANK didn't make a loan, they just allowed OP's mum to make a substantial withdrawal (transfer).   It was on the basis that the money was being used to buy a property, and it was a loan as repayments had commenced.

OP - Did a property actually get purchased with this money, and whose name is that property now in?     The relative initially lent the money, or their offspring (so the money may have since been gifted down the chain).     Effectively gifting money to a TP that they owe to your mum?!?      

If it turns out that that is the case can the LA still put a charge on that property, if it was not party to the original loan?

I know it's going to be hard OP, but in the circumstances you really shouldn't have to pay any care fees out of your own pocket, either in full or in top ups.    Is that really what this is about?

poppystar

Sea_Shell said:

poppystar said:

I’m concerned that a bank was happy to make such a large loan under these circumstances and with no formal agreement on repayment, even more so if, as you think might be the case, they took her to the bank to get the transfer made. 

As you don’t have LPA the bank may not speak with you about this though. 

As I've read it the BANK didn't make a loan, they just allowed OP's mum to make a substantial withdrawal (transfer).   It was on the basis that the money was being used to buy a property, and it was a loan as repayments had commenced.

Sorry, badly expressed as typing quickly. Meant to say bank processing the loan ie transferring the money. I know it wasn’t a bank loan..

In my experience large money transactions on accounts are usually flagged up if unusual rather than simply processed without question. 

badmemory

Around here LAs do act as appointees.  They deal with clearing their clients rented flats, selling their clients property, whatever is needed & I certainly think that they would look into a black hole in a clients accounts.  In fact I would think that it would be negligent not to.  Although I do also know that locally they do not go as far back as some LAs go.

elsien

They have a responsibility to ensure it is done, not necessarily to do it themselves. Appointees don't have legal authority to sell a property, or to access the bank accounts or assets of people who lack capacity;  that needs a deputyship through the court of protection. 

izoomzoom

xylophone said:

This relative effectively took money from your mother (made her sign a loan agreement) when  mother was incapable of giving informed consent? Nothing written between them. Dementia (and informed consent impossible) only happened a year later.

I take it that your mother no longer owns/has never owned a property? Never owned in this country.

Your mother has been assessed by the Local Authority? Don't think so, or at least not yet.

She is not eligible for CHC or even the nursing care component? Don't know yet.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/

Does you mother receive Attendance Allowance? Yes, we've received the upper amount since her dementia diagnosis.

If your mother has to fund her own care, then her savings, pensions, capital and loan repayments will need to be used to cover the fees.

Once she reaches the point that her capital reduces to the minimum permitted, the LA will take over but her pensions (state and private) and the loan repayments will still be used to fund her care.

You will need to make a full statement concerning her finances to the LA, including details of the loan repayment.

The LA may look into all the circumstances leading to the making of the loan.

Replies above.

izoomzoom

74jax said:

Was the money given to purchase a property?  I would expect the LA to place a charge on that property so that when it sells the LA get a repayment back for the care home fees they have paid.  I'm not sure if the LA will take a monthly payment from the person who owns the property - so that the amount on against the house decreases each month.  
Be completely honest with the LA, it helps you have proof it was a loan and is to be repaid.  Hopefully the LA will pay the care homes fees whilst waiting for the property to sell.  

I believe it was used to redevelop a property that had been purchased (by relatives grandchild). The house might be in her name, or a business name (imagine grandchild will be a shareholder).

izoomzoom

badmemory said:

Some of the threads on here are quite scary when you are already in your mid 70s & think you are completely with it & know what you are doing financially.  I need to live at home until my mid 90s - long story we won't go into here.  But it does worry me that I may lose it a little or fall into the hands of someone unscrupulous.  It just shows how careful we all need to be.  No-one I know knows how much I have apart from the house apart from my sister & my son who lives with me & tries to wrap me in bubblewrap.  Hopefully he will protect me from any foolishness I may become subject to.

You are absolutely right.