Visitor Bay Ticket

raviktiwari

Hi,
 My wife has received a ticket on her vehicle when she visited her friends at her flat which has got parking enforcement on their estate. It states the reason as “not displaying a valid permit”. The vehicle in question was parked in a visitor bay and my wife asked for the visitor permit and displayed it on the car dashboard.

 However, it was raining quite badly that night and it was dark enough in the parking area for the patrolling guy to have not seen the permit.
 I came to know about this forum quite late in the process, so I did not have time to ask for help during the initial days. However, here is the timeline and status of my appeal:
Friend’s visit: 25th Oct, PCN received same date
Appealed against the ticket on: 7th Nov (pls see the details below):

 Dear Team,
This is in reference to above mentioned PCN number dated 25th October 2020. I had 14 days to respond to this PCN and today being the 13th day and having obtained some legal advice I am responding back to you within the allotted time frame. My vehicle received the aforementioned PCN on 25th October when I was visiting my friend in Brunel Crescent.

I dispute your ‘Parking Charge Notice', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close-up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

I understand your concern is around valid PTL permit, so I would like to reiterate that the car was parked appropriately in the designated visitor parking and with the visitor parking permit displayed on the car dashboard. However, it looks like the permit might have moved around and was probably not visible to the patrolling guy. Having said that, I understand it was quite dark and in the area of parking there was not ample lighting plus it was raining heavily on that night. So it is quite possible that the permit was not visible and the same is quite obvious from the pictures provided on your website as well. So, I am not surprised why he/she was not able to see the permit. I am therefore for your convenience, attaching the permit with this letter which I obtained from my host on that night and put it on the dashboard.

Just so you know I have many friends in Brunel Crescent and I have visited them many times before and I always ask my host if they have got visitor permit and if they have one, I never fail to display it. I did the same this time as well and displayed my visitor parking permit. So, the reason stated for the PCN was ‘Failure to Display a Valid Permit’ is not true and I would therefore request you to either offer me a POPLA code or cancel the charge.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.
I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

 Many Thanks,
Defendant
PCN: PCN Number

 

However, the appeal was over turned on 13th Nov. But the mail went into junk folder and we saw it just now. This is what they have replied with:
Dear R
Thank you for your letter of appeal against the Parking Charge Notice issued under the terms of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.
 There are Warning Signs situated on the site that state, Warning, Private Property, vehicles parked in this area must park within a correct marked bay and clearly display a valid PTL authorised permit in the windscreen. Failure to comply will result in the vehicle being issued with a Parking Charge Notice without any notice given.  Having carefully considered the evidence provided by you and the Warden we have decided to reject your appeal for the reason below.

 As the vehicle was not displaying a valid PTL permit in the windscreen, having checked photographs of when the vehicle was issued with the PCN, (you can view the photographic evidence yourself online at www.payptl.co.uk ) as clearly stated on the warning signs, the vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice.

 We have considered your reason for appeal but unfortunately the warden must see the permit clearly displayed in the windscreen and the vehicle parked within a correct marked bay on the day when inspecting.

 We are not able to consider mitigating circumstances, that an appellant feels he or she had good reason for breaching the terms of parking is not a reason for which we can allow an appeal.  When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to park.  It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking that are clearly displayed on the signs.

Supreme Court of the United Kingdom – Landmark court decision

On the 4th November 2015, a landmark judgement was handed down in favour of a parking operator who took a motorist to court for non-payment of a parking charge. Further details on the case can be found here - supremecourt dot uk/cases/docs/uksc-2013-0280-judgment dot pdf. This case was an important “test case” due to the complex legal arguments used by both sides. As a result, falls outside “The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999” and falls outside Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss.

The responsibility to observe and obey parking restrictions is yours and as we operated correctly in this instance. We are sorry, but we will not be accepting your appeal on this occasion as the warden acted accordingly to the signage at the location.

 You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure.

 Due to above your appeal is refused, you now have the following options:
1. Pay the PCN at the prevailing price of £60 within 14 days of above date. Please note that after this time the discounted rate will no longer apply, and the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £100.
2. Make an appeal to POPLA-Independent Appeals Service within 28 days by visiting popla dot co dot uk and completing the appeal form online quoting POPLA appeal reference xxxxxxxxxx. If you prefer to complete your appeal in writing, please contact Parking Ticketing Ltd on 0333 533 4540 to request the POPLA appeal forms.
3. Please be advised that if you opt for independent arbitration of your case via option 2, the ability to pay the parking charge at the reduced rate of £60 will be at an end, the full charge of £100.00 will be payable should your appeal be unsuccessful. If you opt to pay the parking charge you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.
4. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures which will lead to costs being added to the original charge of £100 and we may proceed with Court action against you.

We do not enter multiple appeals.

Yours sincerely
Our Privacy Policy can be found online at parkingticketing dot co dot uk
Appeals Dept.
Pay On-line:  payptl dot co dot uk     Phone Pay: 0844 848 0814

As you can see we don’t have much time left – I don’t understand what is the meaning of 14 days (is it from when they responded or from the date when the initial PCN was issued)?
And last but not the least, I have gone thru almost entire forum and to be honest even though you guys are doing a tremendous job and all of you are expert in your area, the overall experience for me so far has been very intimidating – I can’t understand which template to use where. Most of the details are based on the link and then the link is either outdate or maybe I did not get the context. With that background information, I will really appreciate if you can pls do some handholding for me.

Should we respond back to this PCN company, or go to POPLA or write to my MP? And where can I get a detailed template that I can copy-paste (with edit).

Many Thanks,
R

KeithP

Your initial appeal starts by denying that you were the driver, yet subsequently appears to contradict that several times.

You now need to appeal to PoPLA.
Start by reading the third post of the NEWBIES thread where you will find good guidance on creating a winning PoPLA appeal.

Fruitcake

You also need to ask the friends what their lease/AST says about parking, visitor parking, permits, PCNs, and court. What it doesn't say is just as important.

Check the timestamps on the scammer's photos as the scamvoice may have been issued whilst the driver was fetching the permit.

Get pics of the site and signage, covid regs permitting.

Construct a draft PoPLA appeal using all the template points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES plus the evidence you obtain from the friends and the site photos. Post it here for checking before you post it.

Coupon-mad

Use the images from the website to show POPLA that the permit was visible and that it was the sneaky angles of the photos that deliberately tried to make it look like it wasn't displayed.  See the 3rd post of the NEWBIES thread for the other appeal points that will follow the one you write yourself.

Parking Ticketing Ltd don't have a 'team'.  Amazes me people contact this industry as if they are normal customer service teams.  DON'T Pay them even if you lose at POPLA.  So what.  Give it a go like everyone does.

beamerguy

raviktiwari ..... All the good advice has been given above
Don't get into panic mode about this, and please DO NOT PAY scammers.
If you can provide proof that the permit was displayed, the scammers are scuppered.  There is also the case of telling the PPC scammer that their picture taking goon should go for an eye test.

BUT, as we have seen before, maybe the goon is a resident who earns commission, takes pictures and via an app sends it to the Scammer ?   Your friend needs to look very carefully at this and if he/she rents the flat or is on a lease, the agents must be requested to investigate.

As far as POPLA goes, in a real world POPLA must agree with you as long as you provide proof. However, POPLA are a bit of an old dinosaur and it will depend if a real assessor reads it or the tea boy/lady reads it.  POPLA are being replaced soon anyway

And if POPLA reject it, so what, this type of scam is easily beaten/

NEVER PAY A SCAMMER ... your money will finance more horrible things