Bought vehicle from used cars trader and it failed MOT 2 days later

AdrianC

neilmcl said:

EdGasketTheSecond said:

Typical case of over-engineering something that can and should be really simple; and the basic handbrake and lever has worked fine for years without complicated electronic gubbins. I bet you can't change the brake pads either without a computer program.

It's a disability adaption, hence there's a very good reason why the "basic handbrake and lever" system doesn't work for some people. I thought that would be obvious to most people.

While that certainly applies to a setup such as you describe, where an adaptation specifically removes the effort from a manual handbrake to allow a driver who does not have the strength or mobility to use a manual handbrake... Ed is absolute correct when it comes to the usual modern EPC as fitted to standard cars.

DiddyDavies

facade said:

neilmcl said:

Don't think of the electric handbrake as the type you'd find in modern cars with electronic parking brake systems from the factory. What we're talking here is a manual handbrake that's been adapted. Essentially the handbrake lever has been removed and a servo installed to pull the existing cable mechanism to apply the brake, operated by an on/off rocker switch fitted onto the dash. The longer you push down the switch in the on position the more tension you apply to the brake cable in the same way the higher you manually lift your handbrake lever. Of course this assumes that the OP's donor car didn't already come with a standard, manufacturer designed electronic parking brake.

Ah! thanks.

I thought it was a standard feature, like a Renault, electric parking brakes have been mainstream since the early 2000s.

So you just stall the motor yourself, and let go before it burns out. Same criteria applies though, if the cable is seized, it can't work properly, even if it is adjusted.

Unless of course, there is some sort of clutch mechanism so when the cable gets to a preset tension, the clutch slips and doesn't allow the cable to be overloaded or the motor to burn out.

facade

DiddyDavies said:

facade said:

neilmcl said:

Don't think of the electric handbrake as the type you'd find in modern cars with electronic parking brake systems from the factory. What we're talking here is a manual handbrake that's been adapted. Essentially the handbrake lever has been removed and a servo installed to pull the existing cable mechanism to apply the brake, operated by an on/off rocker switch fitted onto the dash. The longer you push down the switch in the on position the more tension you apply to the brake cable in the same way the higher you manually lift your handbrake lever. Of course this assumes that the OP's donor car didn't already come with a standard, manufacturer designed electronic parking brake.

Ah! thanks.

I thought it was a standard feature, like a Renault, electric parking brakes have been mainstream since the early 2000s.

So you just stall the motor yourself, and let go before it burns out. Same criteria applies though, if the cable is seized, it can't work properly, even if it is adjusted.

Unless of course, there is some sort of clutch mechanism so when the cable gets to a preset tension, the clutch slips and doesn't allow the cable to be overloaded or the motor to burn out.

You might be confusing what we would do with what a designer working to a budget would  

I can think of several options to limit the pull, all would result in it not applying the brake fully if the cable seizes.

The point is, it is likely a simple fix, (not necessarily a cheap one though)

If it worked originally it can be made to work now, or as neilmc is suggesting, it might even be finger trouble at the MOT centre, if the tester hasn't seen one before.

frost500

Why would you pay 10k for a car without 12months warranty? 

Jumblebumble

TheElite said:

Hi all

My father bought a wheelchair accessible vehicle from a trader/used car garage in London 2 weeks ago for around £10,000 (paid on credit card). It's a few years old but it's in good external condition with low mileage. It's a mobility vehicle so has a lot of electronic components. One of the components is the electric hand brake and 2 days after we bought it, we put it through an MOT and it failed (Last MOT was in Jan 20' and it had passed). The rear wheels didn't lock on the rollers.

The garage we took it to adjusted the handbrake, replaced the rear pads, but it still didn't engage enough for it to be considered safe.

We took it back to the trader 90 miles away who took it their specialist garage. They advised us that the problem was rectified a few days later and we went back to collect it. Took it to our local garage for a demo MOT but it still showed as a fail as the rear wheels still didn't lock. Our local garage video-called their specialist garage and adjusted it as far as they could, increased the locking readings, but it still didn't lock.

We sent the trader an email saying that we would like to reject the vehicle as it was sold in unsatisfactory quality, and would like a full refund. The emails were ignored and so I called yesterday and they said that "they don't want to take the van back" and so we can take the vehicle to any main dealers and they will cover the cost to get the problem fixed. The main dealers that can take in this vehicles are 25 miles away, and they don't have any appointments until later in November or early December. I don't want to spend more time and effort (and money!) getting a problem fixed which we shouldn't have been having.

My father wants to give them another chance but if I'm honest, I'm just tired now. I've been taking time off work to help him with this, and getting a friend to come with me when I was taking the vehicle to the garage.

What can we do to make the garage understand that this is ridiculous and we want our money back?

Thanks

Any car with a short MOT should  be considered to be worth £88 per ton of mixed metals at the crusher.
If you do this you will not go far wrong
If you want to see an extreme example have a look at the MOT history for Romahome   N676AVR  on sale on Ebay for a mere £4500

AdrianC

Jumblebumble said:

If you want to see an extreme example have a look at the MOT history for Romahome   N676AVR  on sale on Ebay for a mere £4500

It's a 25yo C15 with a chemikhazi strapped to the back. And C15s always did rot for fun...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193741942714

I think my definition of "immaculate condition" might differ from his. "Verry clean and tidy if not the cleanest out there"

Last V5C issued the day after this MOT...

28th October 2020 - FAIL

 Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):

• Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area so inadequately repaired that control of the vehicle is likely to be adversely affected suspension crossmember support (5.3.6 (a) (ii))

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Nearside Front Service brake excessively binding (1.2.1 (f))
• Offside Front Service brake excessively binding (1.2.1 (f))
• Nearside Rear Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill and surrounding area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Rear Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill and surrounding area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Front Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength under bonnet bulkhead close to suspension mounting (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Front Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength under bonnet bulkhead close to suspension mounting (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively damaged significantly reducing structural strength corner of front subframe (5.3.6 (a) (i))

Camper prices are mental at the best of times, this year especially. We were looking in Feb, and saw a pro-converted mid-late-00s Transit being sold, short MOT, "must sell because we're going back home to Oz after travelling"... The rot advisories and fails on the MOT had started two years before the expensive fit-out... <scratches head>

burlingtonfl6

AdrianC said:

Jumblebumble said:

If you want to see an extreme example have a look at the MOT history for Romahome   N676AVR  on sale on Ebay for a mere £4500

It's a 25yo C15 with a chemikhazi strapped to the back. And C15s always did rot for fun...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193741942714

I think my definition of "immaculate condition" might differ from his. "Verry clean and tidy if not the cleanest out there"

Last V5C issued the day after this MOT...

28th October 2020 - FAIL

 Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):

• Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area so inadequately repaired that control of the vehicle is likely to be adversely affected suspension crossmember support (5.3.6 (a) (ii))

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Nearside Front Service brake excessively binding (1.2.1 (f))
• Offside Front Service brake excessively binding (1.2.1 (f))
• Nearside Rear Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill and surrounding area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Rear Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill and surrounding area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Front Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength under bonnet bulkhead close to suspension mounting (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Front Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength under bonnet bulkhead close to suspension mounting (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively damaged significantly reducing structural strength corner of front subframe (5.3.6 (a) (i))

Camper prices are mental at the best of times, this year especially. We were looking in Feb, and saw a pro-converted mid-late-00s Transit being sold, short MOT, "must sell because we're going back home to Oz after travelling"... The rot advisories and fails on the MOT had started two years before the expensive fit-out... <scratches head>

I bought a new Mobilvetta in 2018 for 65k.
I sold it in August this year for 66K.
Motorhome prices are mental. People don't understand you get a bag of turd now for 20 grand

Homer_home

scrappy_returns said:

neilmcl said:

chrisw said:

neilmcl said:

TheElite said:

neilmcl said:

TheElite said:

Hi all

My father bought a wheelchair accessible vehicle from a trader/used car garage in London 2 weeks ago for around £10,000 (paid on credit card). It's a few years old but it's in good external condition with low mileage. It's a mobility vehicle so has a lot of electronic components. One of the components is the electric hand brake and 2 days after we bought it, we put it through an MOT and it failed (Last MOT was in Jan 20' and it had passed). The rear wheels didn't lock on the rollers.

The garage we took it to adjusted the handbrake, replaced the rear pads, but it still didn't engage enough for it to be considered safe.

We took it back to the trader 90 miles away who took it their specialist garage. They advised us that the problem was rectified a few days later and we went back to collect it. Took it to our local garage for a demo MOT but it still showed as a fail as the rear wheels still didn't lock. Our local garage video-called their specialist garage and adjusted it as far as they could, increased the locking readings, but it still didn't lock.

We sent the trader an email saying that we would like to reject the vehicle as it was sold in unsatisfactory quality, and would like a full refund. The emails were ignored and so I called yesterday and they said that "they don't want to take the van back" and so we can take the vehicle to any main dealers and they will cover the cost to get the problem fixed. The main dealers that can take in this vehicles are 25 miles away, and they don't have any appointments until later in November or early December. I don't want to spend more time and effort (and money!) getting a problem fixed which we shouldn't have been having.

My father wants to give them another chance but if I'm honest, I'm just tired now. I've been taking time off work to help him with this, and getting a friend to come with me when I was taking the vehicle to the garage.

What can we do to make the garage understand that this is ridiculous and we want our money back?

Thanks

Well tbh it's not your choice, it's your dad's, he's the one who purchased and any statutory rights are with him. If he really wants to reject it then he needs to write a letter before action explaining that he's exercising his short term right to reject under the terms of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 as the vehicle purchased is not of satisfactory quality and is unroadworthy for which the garage is actually committing an offence, under the Road Traffic Act 1988 to sell.

Out of interest, what vehicle is it and have you been making sure to keep the hand brake switch pressed until it fully engages.

It's a wheelchair van. The electric button is an on/off type one, so it's either on or off.

What make/model of WAV is it?

Speaking from experience the electric hand brake switch on most WAVs is progressive and requires to be held down fully for a few secs whilst the handbrake fully engages, the longer you hold it the more it engages just like a standard brake lever.

Are you sure? Why would it do that? Surely a handbrake is either on or off. I can't think of any situation where you might want to partially apply a handbrake.

It's not a case of "partially applying a handbrake". You wouldn't use the same force to manually  engage the handbrake to hold your car on the flat as you would on a hill for example, if you did that it wouldn't last very long.

Really? I've always pulled my handbrake up to the top of it's ratchet on all my vehicles and can't remember ever having an issue with the handbrake.

To be able to pull your handbrake to the top of it's ratchet means you had a problem , manual handbrakes should be adjusted so they fully engage after four clicks and I'm not even going to say that by not using the button to pull a handbrake will wear the ratchet out ......

Elmer_BeFuddled

Homer_home said
"..... and I'm not even going to say that by not using the button to pull a handbrake will wear the ratchet out ......"

You said it!   

Jumblebumble

burlingtonfl6 said:

AdrianC said:

Jumblebumble said:

If you want to see an extreme example have a look at the MOT history for Romahome   N676AVR  on sale on Ebay for a mere £4500

It's a 25yo C15 with a chemikhazi strapped to the back. And C15s always did rot for fun...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/193741942714

I think my definition of "immaculate condition" might differ from his. "Verry clean and tidy if not the cleanest out there"

Last V5C issued the day after this MOT...

28th October 2020 - FAIL

 Do not drive until repaired (dangerous defects):

• Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area so inadequately repaired that control of the vehicle is likely to be adversely affected suspension crossmember support (5.3.6 (a) (ii))

Repair immediately (major defects):

• Nearside Front Service brake excessively binding (1.2.1 (f))
• Offside Front Service brake excessively binding (1.2.1 (f))
• Nearside Rear Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill and surrounding area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Rear Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength sill and surrounding area (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Front Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength under bonnet bulkhead close to suspension mounting (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Offside Front Inner Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength under bonnet bulkhead close to suspension mounting (5.3.6 (a) (i))
• Nearside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively damaged significantly reducing structural strength corner of front subframe (5.3.6 (a) (i))

Camper prices are mental at the best of times, this year especially. We were looking in Feb, and saw a pro-converted mid-late-00s Transit being sold, short MOT, "must sell because we're going back home to Oz after travelling"... The rot advisories and fails on the MOT had started two years before the expensive fit-out... <scratches head>

I bought a new Mobilvetta in 2018 for 65k.
I sold it in August this year for 66K.
Motorhome prices are mental. People don't understand you get a bag of turd now for 20 grand

Or a  Romahome worth £200 and only fit to be crushed for £4.5K