Trust or will ??

collectors

I have a friend that is in her 70s & totally independent with no family at all & worth in the region of £700k. She also has no will. She would like everything she owns to go to animal charities & we keep asking her to at least make a will for now that gives everything to “let's say” the RSPCA, Anything is better than the government getting it. 

Now, a will, will help things, but if she was to fall ill & needed a care home, they would quite likely take & sell the house to pay for this. I know a will would not stop this, but would a trust. I am thinking the trustees could sell the house & give it to the animal charities which i know she would much prefer. Any suggestions?. 

Browntoa

Any changes to her circumstances at their age are likely to be viewed as deliberate "deprivation of assets" by a council providing care and legally challenged successfully . 

I doubt the use of a trust would be successful for the same reason .

Possibly if it was only a portion of the value of the property it may pass scrutiny .

Need proper legal advice from someone with expertise in estate planning

eskbanker

collectors said:

I have a friend that is in her 70s & totally independent with no family at all & worth in the region of £700k. She also has no will. She would like everything she owns to go to animal charities & we keep asking her to at least make a will for now that gives everything to “let's say” the RSPCA, Anything is better than the government getting it. 

Now, a will, will help things, but if she was to fall ill & needed a care home, they would quite likely take & sell the house to pay for this. I know a will would not stop this, but would a trust. I am thinking the trustees could sell the house & give it to the animal charities which i know she would much prefer. Any suggestions?.

If she really feels that it's more important for her money to be given to animal charities rather than funding her own care needs, that would suggest that her mental faculties are already impaired, so she should start making arrangements for someone competent to obtain power of attorney.

collectors

We are trying to talk her into downsizing & moving out of London so she can then give what she likes to charities & it should hopefully release around 450k for animal welfare. Sorry i didn't get back sooner, but i am not getting email notices 

Malthusian

collectors said:

We are trying to talk her into downsizing & moving out of London so she can then give what she likes to charities & it should hopefully release around 450k for animal welfare. Sorry i didn't get back sooner, but i am not getting email notices 

Have you considered minding your own business as a solution? If an elderly lady needs to be "talked into" moving away from her support networks so she can give a few hundred thousand quid to moggies then it's probably not a good idea.

Now, a will, will help things, but if she was to fall ill & needed a care home, they would quite likely take & sell the house to pay for this.

And in due course what was left, which would probably be a heck of a lot (even with London care costs) as the average stay in a care home is two years, would go to the moggies, assuming she made a Will. I'm not seeing the problem.

ccluedo

"Now, a will, will help things, but if she was to fall ill & needed a care home, they would quite likely take & sell the house to pay for this."
In the position of this lady, far from accepting her (or is it your?) worry about her house being sold to pay for her care and trying to put it beyond reach, perhaps it would be an idea to encourage her to set out her own long term care wishes  should care be required, and do it legally. 

With 700k and no family she could perhaps be encouraged to think about the best care she can get whether that be by private live in carer(s) thereby allowing her to stay in her own home for as long as possible, or by choosing a standard and location of care home now that she thinks she would be happy to live in should the future need arise.
The animal charities get what's left  - all. some or none
It would probably cost less in legal fees as well and maybe give her  some peace of mind, and the will could be done at the same time.

naedanger

collectors said:

I have a friend that is in her 70s & totally independent with no family at all & worth in the region of £700k. She also has no will. She would like everything she owns to go to animal charities & we keep asking her to at least make a will for now that gives everything to “let's say” the RSPCA, Anything is better than the government getting it. 

Now, a will, will help things, but if she was to fall ill & needed a care home, they would quite likely take & sell the house to pay for this. I know a will would not stop this, but would a trust. I am thinking the trustees could sell the house & give it to the animal charities which i know she would much prefer. Any suggestions?. 

My suggestion is that she speaks to a good solicitor and writes a will. She has more than enough money to enjoy the rest of her life by paying for good quality care if she needs it and will almost certainly still have plenty of money to leave to her chosen charities.

And my suggestion for you is to help her do that. But I don't think she should be encouraged to consider only her inheritance. Would she really be happy in the cheapest care home the council can provide or moving to a new area at her age? And she should be reminded she has plenty of money so that in all probability, regardless of what happens to her, she will still be leaving a considerable amount to charity.  

xylophone

It seems to me that this lady should see a solicitor and make a will leaving her estate to whatever charity she wishes to help.
If before she dies she uses up all her assets, then clearly the bequest simply fails.

Linton

collectors said:

I have a friend that is in her 70s & totally independent with no family at all & worth in the region of £700k. She also has no will. She would like everything she owns to go to animal charities & we keep asking her to at least make a will for now that gives everything to “let's say” the RSPCA, Anything is better than the government getting it. 

Now, a will, will help things, but if she was to fall ill & needed a care home, they would quite likely take & sell the house to pay for this. I know a will would not stop this, but would a trust. I am thinking the trustees could sell the house & give it to the animal charities which i know she would much prefer. Any suggestions?. 

Just to correct a misunderstanding you, and many other people seem to have....

The government would not "take and sell her house" if she needed care.  Firstly the government is not involved, it is all down to the local council.  Secondly the council would not take her house, they would simply say that because of your friend's wealth they, the council, would not be contributing to the costs.  Your friend (or if she is unable to make financial decisions, her PoA or court appointed deputy) would decide how to pay from your friend's own resources.  The council dont care, it's none of their business.

So it is no different to many other "benefits".  If you cant pay for your basic needs, the state will support you.  People who deliberately put themselves in the position of being "benefit cheats" dont get much sympathy from the authorities or come to that, the general public.

Albermarle

The only time councils sell someone's home is when that person has an asset ( the home ) but inadequate cash/savings to pay for their care . The costs of care are added up and when the person dies and the house is sold , these costs have to be paid back . If you have decent cash savings then you just pay out of them and the home is untouched .
In fact most people never end up in a care home at all and as Linton says if they do then two years is the average.
A lot of posters on here seem to cook up schemes to avoid care home fees , that most likely they will never need and/or they will not work . There seems to be an irrational fear of 'losing everything' when in fact this is a relatively rare situation.

NottinghamKnight

Linton said:

collectors said:

I have a friend that is in her 70s & totally independent with no family at all & worth in the region of £700k. She also has no will. She would like everything she owns to go to animal charities & we keep asking her to at least make a will for now that gives everything to “let's say” the RSPCA, Anything is better than the government getting it. 

Now, a will, will help things, but if she was to fall ill & needed a care home, they would quite likely take & sell the house to pay for this. I know a will would not stop this, but would a trust. I am thinking the trustees could sell the house & give it to the animal charities which i know she would much prefer. Any suggestions?. 

Just to correct a misunderstanding you, and many other people seem to have....

The government would not "take and sell her house" if she needed care.  Firstly the government is not involved, it is all down to the local council.  Secondly the council would not take her house, they would simply say that because of your friend's wealth they, the council, would not be contributing to the costs.  Your friend (or if she is unable to make financial decisions, her PoA or court appointed deputy) would decide how to pay from your friend's own resources.  The council dont care, it's none of their business.

So it is no different to many other "benefits".  If you cant pay for your basic needs, the state will support you.  People who deliberately put themselves in the position of being "benefit cheats" dont get much sympathy from the authorities or come to that, the general public.

That is not correct. My mother went into a private nursing home late last year and passed away in April. The council paid her fees during her time in the home, and subsequently issued an invoice after she died which was paid directly from her account,