CCJ looking for consent or set aside

Raf123411

@Coupon-mad

Thank you for explaining. It’s make much more sense now. So EXCEL not even trying to be compliant with POFA. 

Redx

Excel read this forum so I would edit your posts and muse offline

If they can persuade a judge that on the balance of probabilities that the defendant was the driver , POFA becomes irrelevant , so I am not sure why you are assisting them ?

Insurance is hardly relevant in most circumstances , because thousands of people including me are insured to drive it

Insurance may help if multiple drivers are insured

I have never seen Excel or VCS comply with POFA , even after 8 years !! It is no surprise that they failed POFA , it's a regular occurrence

Raf123411

Redx said:

Excel read this forum so I would edit your posts and muse offline

Thank you I’ll clear the posts so don’t help anyone.  

So with them not comply with  POFA the only way will be to proof the identity of the driver which will be next to impossible with photos they have?

I’ll add details of postage NTK too late as a final proof of not complying with POFA.

Just technical question when sending draft defence to local court do I have to send new WS? 

I already send one with p244 form.
Also can I attached photographies of the car park and all evidence I have with the defence?

Redx

Your questions were answered on the previous page by several people

Coupon-mad

Read Excel v Smith; the Judge's transcript covers the facts and it was on appeal = persuasive on the county court. 

You know where to find it, as explained before.  And you know it doesn't go with a defence.

nosferatu1001

Stop saying draft. The word draft does not appear in you order. Stop. 

Coupon-mad

Just technical question when sending draft defence to local court do I have to send new WS? I already send one with p244 form.
Also can I attached photographies of the car park and all evidence I have with the defence?

Sorry, I didn't realise this is presumably post-CCJ-set aside.  We never re-read threads and I didn't notice the title when I replied earlier.

So yes, defence, witness statement against the PCN and your exhibits (I gave you two, and the NEWBIES thread gives you more).  All of it, everything you wish to rely on even though the Judge has presumably only asked for the defence.  This is because the stupid system, post CCJ set aside, doesn't ask for Witness Statements and evidence and just expects people to cough up a defence then face a second hearing...

Also, be aware if the PPC discontinues this claim and if you are then still out of pocket by the £255 application fee, you need to write telling the court and cite CPR 38.6 because the Claimant is liable under that rule, for the Defendant's costs up to that point.  This was discussed only yesterday on a set aside thread we assume you've also read.

Raf123411

Coupon-mad said:

Just technical question when sending draft defence to local court do I have to send new WS? I already send one with p244 form.
Also can I attached photographies of the car park and all evidence I have with the defence?

So yes, defence, witness statement against the PCN and your exhibits (I gave you two, and the NEWBIES thread gives you more).  All of it, everything you wish to rely on even though the Judge has presumably only asked for the defence.  This is because the stupid system, post CCJ set aside, doesn't ask for Witness Statements and evidence and just expects people to cough up a defence then face a second hearing...

Thank you, i managed to read through few court cases for example Excel v Smith or this http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/01/vcs-lose-claim-no-keeper-liability.html . This give me confidence this could be case to win.

I checked whole newbies thread and just] wondering if WS  and evidence for original case could be send later or better to send this all together with defence?

Appologies if I missed this somehwere, but in creating witness statement  if registered vehicle keeper dont identyfied them self as drivers do you still writing similar WS or talk more about how signages are not clear and not enough light to read them?

Coupon-mad said:

Also, be aware if the PPC discontinues this claim and if you are then still out of pocket by the £255 application fee, you need to write telling the court and cite CPR 38.6 because the Claimant is liable under that rule, for the Defendant's costs up to that point.  This was discussed only yesterday on a set aside thread we assume you've also read.

 Thanks for pointing, I have look into this. I alread asked for reimburse the costs on my draft order send with N244 form, but will keep this in mind in case Excel decide to give up.

nosferatu1001 said:

Stop saying draft. The word draft does not appear in you order. Stop. 

Noted ! thank you for pointing this.

nosferatu1001

Coupon-mad said:

Just technical question when sending draft defence to local court do I have to send new WS? I already send one with p244 form.
Also can I attached photographies of the car park and all evidence I have with the defence?

Sorry, I didn't realise this is presumably post-CCJ-set aside.  We never re-read threads and I didn't notice the title when I replied earlier.

So yes, defence, witness statement against the PCN and your exhibits (I gave you two, and the NEWBIES thread gives you more).  All of it, everything you wish to rely on even though the Judge has presumably only asked for the defence.  This is because the stupid system, post CCJ set aside, doesn't ask for Witness Statements and evidence and just expects people to cough up a defence then face a second hearing...

Also, be aware if the PPC discontinues this claim and if you are then still out of pocket by the £255 application fee, you need to write telling the court and cite CPR 38.6 because the Claimant is liable under that rule, for the Defendant's costs up to that point.  This was discussed only yesterday on a set aside thread we assume you've also read.

NO c-m this isn't post set aside. April 2021 is the hearing for set aside. As per page 6.  

OP - you need to be really clear. 

You are in a hearing to set aside the judgement. You are showing why judgement should be set aside. You are not defending the claim in this hearing , BUT YOU ARE required to send you FINAL COMPLETE DEFENCE because the court has ordered it. But the hearing is NOT to hear the claim, but hear set aside. As you know, no evidence of the claim is included with a defence. 

For the SET ASIDE witness statement you should already have sent in your evidence showing why your judgement should be set aside? 

N244. Not P244. 

If you were not the driver, when it comes to writing the WS to support your defence of the claim, you of course state you weren't the driver, prove it if you can - with evidence. 

Coupon-mad

Ah, OK, set aside hearing hasn't been heard yet.  So, as nosferatu1001 says, this is your aim at this stage:

OP - you need to be really clear.  You are in a hearing to set aside the judgement.
You are showing why judgement should be set aside. You are not defending the claim in this hearing , BUT YOU ARE required to send you FINAL COMPLETE DEFENCE because the court has ordered it. But the hearing is NOT to hear the claim, but hear set aside. As you know, no evidence of the claim is included with a defence. 

When you get the CCJ set aside make sure you ask for the damn costs to be ordered against the Claimant, or reserved because you believe they are likely to discontinue and will be liable for them then, under CPR38.6.  I am jumping the gun but don't come back in April telling us you forgot to ask for costs.

You do not need exhibits like Excel v Smith...yet.