New job and car /fuel allowance

NottinghamKnight

Were_Doomed said:

NottinghamKnight said:

Were_Doomed said:

At my company we use The Mileage Company (TMC) to record mileage each month. (I have the app on my phone). Every business trip you record the start/destination/mileage/trip reason, and at the end of the month you record the closing odometer reading. Then personal miles are calculated, charged at 8p per mile and the amount is deducted from salary. I also record fuel usage (fill to fill) to calculate MPG ... based on this I know the actual cost would be between 11p and 12p per mile, so having the fuel card is a cost saving for me. (Previously I would expense business miles at 11p per mile whilst paying for fuel myself).

My last company used TMC but all mileage was calculated on a pro rate basis so there was no benefit using the card apart from a minor cashflow one, as if I used half monthly mileage on personal miles then I was charged half the full that went in, updated every month.

If I do 550 miles in a month, and they're all personal (commuting doesn't count as business miles) then that's basically a tank of fuel ... let's say 50 litres. Diesel round here is ~ £1.14 per litre so that's a spend of £57.00. As I am charged personal miles at 8p per mile then I would be charged £44.00 ... so a net "profit" to me of £13. (The arrangement my company has means I pay no BIK for the fuel card as I'm not officially gaining a benefit by having it, despite the reality being different).

Yes, just interesting to see the different approaches that are adopted, even where the same systems are being used.

Faitherdave

I'm starting next week as a self employed delivery driver using my own car, for a start up company who want me to pay 80% business fuel costs (they pay 20%). Their reasoning is I can "claim the money back in tax form the Govt". Leaving aside the fact I am waiting a year to recover any money, can you guys confirm I am right in thinking this would cost me a packet & is there any way I could recover all fuel expenses?  I'm very dubious about the whole set up tbh & considering pulling out of it. Thanks vm in advance for any advice.

Grumpy_chap

Faitherdave said:

self employed delivery driver using my own car, for a start up company who want me to pay 80% business fuel costs (they pay 20%). 

Taken in isolation, that is very hard for anyone to comment or interpret.
80% of what?  All the costs of the car?  AMAP?
This needs to be put into proper context, not just the way that mileage / car costs are covered but also the position of the package as a whole.  If the mileage is less generous, is there some other part of the package that compensates?

NottinghamKnight

Faitherdave said:

I'm starting next week as a self employed delivery driver using my own car, for a start up company who want me to pay 80% business fuel costs (they pay 20%). Their reasoning is I can "claim the money back in tax form the Govt". Leaving aside the fact I am waiting a year to recover any money, can you guys confirm I am right in thinking this would cost me a packet & is there any way I could recover all fuel expenses?  I'm very dubious about the whole set up tbh & considering pulling out of it. Thanks vm in advance for any advice.

If they were paying you 80% it would make more sense the other way around. You can reclaim 45p per mile or 10-12p per mile for fuel only, this would give you tax relief at 20 or 40%, which might be where the 20% figure comes from but they seem to have it the wrong way around.  

Faitherdave

My apologies. They are paying 20% of fuel, (I'm not sure exactly how yet) & I pay 80% + all other costs inc car depreciation. I was given an example of ; I might have to drive down to depot in Liverpool (I said distance was not a problem as I'd be getting higher pay rate, but I hadn't absorbed fact I'd be paying most of fuel at time) , collect goods & deliver them to address in Edinburgh. I get paid £10 p/h for up to 8 hrs work, if I do more than this in a shift, I get £15 p/h, they would also pay hotel accom if required. Hope this is clearer.

Grumpy_chap

Still not clear.
Do you mean they will pay 20% of 45p/mile first 10k miles then 20% of 25p/mile?

In terms of the comment about pulling out of the whole thing, do you have any other employment options?  

facade

Faitherdave said:

My apologies. They are paying 20% of fuel, (I'm not sure exactly how yet) & I pay 80% + all other costs inc car depreciation. I was given an example of ; I might have to drive down to depot in Liverpool (I said distance was not a problem as I'd be getting higher pay rate, but I hadn't absorbed fact I'd be paying most of fuel at time) , collect goods & deliver them to address in Edinburgh. I get paid £10 p/h for up to 8 hrs work, if I do more than this in a shift, I get £15 p/h, they would also pay hotel accom if required. Hope this is clearer.

Even if self employed and ignoring EU rules, you are limited to 11 hours on duty, with a maximum of 10 hours driving a day.

The job strikes me as a way of avoiding employer responsibility, I assume there are generous holiday arrangements and sick pay too .

If you are desperate I suppose you could do it, but minimum wage is £8.72 an hour, and you don't have to pay for fuel, goods in transit insurance, servicing and wear & tear on your car if you are collecting trolleys at Tesco.

Grumpy_chap

Maybe the OP is getting shares in return for the investment in the business?  That's why I asked about the total package to put the car costs into context.

Sometimes, you have to take something and continue looking also.

Dr_Crypto

Faitherdave said:

I'm starting next week as a self employed delivery driver using my own car, for a start up company who want me to pay 80% business fuel costs (they pay 20%). Their reasoning is I can "claim the money back in tax form the Govt". Leaving aside the fact I am waiting a year to recover any money, can you guys confirm I am right in thinking this would cost me a packet & is there any way I could recover all fuel expenses?  I'm very dubious about the whole set up tbh & considering pulling out of it. Thanks vm in advance for any advice.

Sounds like an awful job really. The vehicle expenses could be off set against your tax but I can’t see you making even minimum wage on this job.
If you really want to do driving work a salaried employed driver or even agency position may be better although if you don’t have any other options...

ontheroad1970

facade said:

Faitherdave said:

My apologies. They are paying 20% of fuel, (I'm not sure exactly how yet) & I pay 80% + all other costs inc car depreciation. I was given an example of ; I might have to drive down to depot in Liverpool (I said distance was not a problem as I'd be getting higher pay rate, but I hadn't absorbed fact I'd be paying most of fuel at time) , collect goods & deliver them to address in Edinburgh. I get paid £10 p/h for up to 8 hrs work, if I do more than this in a shift, I get £15 p/h, they would also pay hotel accom if required. Hope this is clearer.

Even if self employed and ignoring EU rules, you are limited to 11 hours on duty, with a maximum of 10 hours driving a day.

The job strikes me as a way of avoiding employer responsibility, I assume there are generous holiday arrangements and sick pay too .

If you are desperate I suppose you could do it, but minimum wage is £8.72 an hour, and you don't have to pay for fuel, goods in transit insurance, servicing and wear & tear on your car if you are collecting trolleys at Tesco.

You get a fair bit more than minimum wage pushing trollies at Tesco...

Also, while delivery business is very good at the moment, how long will that be the case for?  £10 an hour isn't great and having to cover all other costs could mean he is working for free.