Views on advisors

HappyHarry

wjr4 is completely correct, that was absolute nonsense.

As an IFA, I quite often have to tell clients that their funds have dropped in value. Markets do that from time to time. Telling a client that news certainly isn't anything to be afraid of. 

My explanation of why a clients funds have fallen will be the same as everyone else's. Maybe it's Covid, maybe it's US policy changes, maybe it's just the markets have fallen after a massive rise in the previous six months. These are all reasons why the market falls, and IFAs and their clients will suffer the bad times along with everyone else. I have never been fired because of a fall in the value of a clients holding. In fact, I get more compliments for reassuring my clients at such times.

 My clients invest in different risk profiles, some clients prefer higher risk investments, some clients much lower. I certainly don't invest clients in lower risk areas because I am an IFA. I will, however, have detailed discussions with my clients about risk and reward to ensure they do not overreach, or under reach their capacity for loss.

My clients do not employ me to make them the most amount of money possible. They use me for financial planning, a steady hand, and to keep them on course for their long term objectives.

dunstonh

As an IFA, I quite often have to tell clients that their funds have dropped in value. Markets do that from time to time. Telling a client that news certainly isn't anything to be afraid of. 

In fact, it can be one of the most important times in a client/adviser relationship.   No matter how often people say they are prepared for loss periods and will accept them, it can be difficult for many people to handle it and they need the handholding through that period.    

It is a shame that the same trolls pollute this thread as they have with other threads.   There are people here that want and enjoy discussion on issues.  They like to hear from all sides.  However, there are some that just want to troll and provoke a response they can report to try and get people banned.     Thankfully, I think most reasonable posters here can spot the trolls a mile away.

[Deleted User]

dunstonh said:

As an IFA, I quite often have to tell clients that their funds have dropped in value. Markets do that from time to time. Telling a client that news certainly isn't anything to be afraid of. 

In fact, it can be one of the most important times in a client/adviser relationship.   No matter how often people say they are prepared for loss periods and will accept them, it can be difficult for many people to handle it and they need the handholding through that period.    

It is a shame that the same trolls pollute this thread as they have with other threads.   There are people here that want and enjoy discussion on issues.  They like to hear from all sides.  However, there are some that just want to troll and provoke a response they can report to try and get people banned.     Thankfully, I think most reasonable posters here can spot the trolls a mile away.

I assume you are referring to me obliquely.
Firstly, I never report and have myself been subject to censure for correcting falsehoods about myself and implying someone's posts made him look silly.
Secondly, I accept that I am biased. My experience with two advisers has been replicated by many others who arrive on this board.
Thirdly, their posts are usually met by posters who are either advisers, working in the wider financial services industry, or wishing to ingratiate themselves in that circle, or simply end users of the adviser service naturally reluctant to question their choice. And a key component is the effort to "normalise" a system of remuneration from a system that is broken. 

You talk about (I guess) people like me "polluting" the forum. But what we address is your gravytrain, not ours. You have far more invested in the status quo than we do in trying to change it.
The world of investing has been turned upside down since pension freedoms but the legacy lives on in the patronising and condescending attitude with which industry spokespeople address the wider circle of readers looking in on this board.

HappyHarry

ZingPowZing said:

dunstonh said:

As an IFA, I quite often have to tell clients that their funds have dropped in value. Markets do that from time to time. Telling a client that news certainly isn't anything to be afraid of. 

In fact, it can be one of the most important times in a client/adviser relationship.   No matter how often people say they are prepared for loss periods and will accept them, it can be difficult for many people to handle it and they need the handholding through that period.    

It is a shame that the same trolls pollute this thread as they have with other threads.   There are people here that want and enjoy discussion on issues.  They like to hear from all sides.  However, there are some that just want to troll and provoke a response they can report to try and get people banned.     Thankfully, I think most reasonable posters here can spot the trolls a mile away.

I assume you are referring to me obliquely.
Firstly, I never report and have myself been subject to censure for correcting falsehoods about myself and implying someone's posts made him look silly.
Secondly, I accept that I am biased. My experience with two advisers has been replicated by many others who arrive on this board.
Thirdly, their posts are usually met with condescension from posters who are either advisers, working in the wider financial services industry, wishing to ingratiate themselves in that circle, or simply end users of the adviser service naturally reluctant to question their choice. And a key component is the effort to "normalise" a system of remuneration from a system that is broken. 

You talk about (I guess) people like me "polluting" the forum. But what we address is your gravytrain, not ours.

ZingPowZing, this is written for your benefit.

Have you stopped and thought what the purpose of this part of the forum is?

I ask, because your posts appear to be written to inflame the financial services posters on this forum. 

Most of the initial posters here are looking for help and guidance on a problem, or perceived problem that they have.

Many of those that reply, helpfully, work in financial services. They know the regulations, products, and where they can fit into a plan. They give helpful guidance to the initial posters, which is often gratefully received.

Sometimes you (and others) then come along, and divert the thread into how much you don't like those in financial services, and how think we are all only there to rip off our clients. This is regardless of the fact that those posting here are doing so pro-bono, and will receive no remuneration for the time spent anonymously helping those that post here.

The end result that you appear to be aiming for, is to turn financial services experts away from these forums, and leave initial posters looking for help with one less place to turn to.

Perhaps your energy would be better directed elsewhere, and let those looking for answers receive helpful answers?

[Deleted User]

HappyHarry said:

ZingPowZing said:

dunstonh said:

As an IFA, I quite often have to tell clients that their funds have dropped in value. Markets do that from time to time. Telling a client that news certainly isn't anything to be afraid of. 

In fact, it can be one of the most important times in a client/adviser relationship.   No matter how often people say they are prepared for loss periods and will accept them, it can be difficult for many people to handle it and they need the handholding through that period.    

It is a shame that the same trolls pollute this thread as they have with other threads.   There are people here that want and enjoy discussion on issues.  They like to hear from all sides.  However, there are some that just want to troll and provoke a response they can report to try and get people banned.     Thankfully, I think most reasonable posters here can spot the trolls a mile away.

I assume you are referring to me obliquely.
Firstly, I never report and have myself been subject to censure for correcting falsehoods about myself and implying someone's posts made him look silly.
Secondly, I accept that I am biased. My experience with two advisers has been replicated by many others who arrive on this board.
Thirdly, their posts are usually met with condescension from posters who are either advisers, working in the wider financial services industry, wishing to ingratiate themselves in that circle, or simply end users of the adviser service naturally reluctant to question their choice. And a key component is the effort to "normalise" a system of remuneration from a system that is broken. 

You talk about (I guess) people like me "polluting" the forum. But what we address is your gravytrain, not ours.

ZingPowZing, this is written for your benefit.
Just can't save yourselves from a condescending attitude, can you? 

Have you stopped and thought what the purpose of this part of the forum is?
Cutting your costs, fighting your corner. That's addressing the consumer HH, not the financial adviser.

I have no problem with financial advisers fighting their corner. In fact, I attribute the mess today largely to the fiction that 
financial advisers could be gatekeepers to peoples' fortunes and not be expected to act in their own interest.

It's human nature.

BananaRepublic

AlanP_2 said:

When I want an electrician or plumber to sort out the bodge job I've done that means I have no power / water I don't post on a DIY site. 

I had to sort out numerous bodge jobs done by professional trades including an electrician. You shouldn’t try and scare people, there are good and poor professionals and good and poor DIY enthusiasts. 

fred246

dunstonh said:

As an IFA, I quite often have to tell clients that their funds have dropped in value. Markets do that from time to time. Telling a client that news certainly isn't anything to be afraid of. 

They like to hear from all sides.

What? Surely that's what you are getting but you are unhappy about it. You will always reply with "see a financial adviser. They hold the secret formula that you won't be able to discover without paying an IFA". Those of us who have had bad experiences with IFAs will come and give our version of how you are better sorting things out for yourself. Sounds like hearing from all sides to me.

LHW99

dunstonh said:

My main issue (in the past, it may have changed now) was the judgement of risk, based on a questionnaire.

Advisers are not allowed to rely on the scoring of a questionnaire.  It is a starting point.  

Something held for a long time, and that's already in significant profit I would likely watch fairly closely / put on a stop-loss and / or perhaps sell if it dropped 10-20%.

Risk profiles are not cast in stone.  Many people are wavy line when it comes to the risk. 

Something held over any timescale that is volatile but with an overall tendency for capital increase I might well tolerate a 50% or greater dip, depending on what that section of the market was doing.

It is the overall weighting that matters really. Not the individual elements within it.  Unless the individual has poor investment knowledge and understanding and doesn't really want to put any effort in to understand.

Taking your points in turn:

This was some time ago so it's good to know that has changed.

Agreed

Perhaps, but may also depend on what the portfolio was designed to achieve and if the elements within are doing that job, or if an individual element may be approaching the point where rebalancing is on the horizon - in which case, judgement can be made as to when / under what conditions that will happen.

BananaRepublic

Linton said:

Many people who suggest not using an IFA  have steadily built up their portfolio from scratch gaining experience over many years and learning from mistakes made early on when the money involved was not significant.

Your case appears very different, you dont have the experience and you are getting a large lump sum.  I would suggest a good IFA is essential.  The advice you will need is how to manage your money to maximise your long term security and minimise tax.

Which particular funds are chosen is pretty unimportant.  Another factor that is often raised but is relatively unimportant in my view is maximising returns as opposed to getting sufficent returns to meet your needs.  Appropriate sacrifice of returns to ensure security is good investment management.  Establishing what is appropriate is something a good IFA will help you achieve.

Once you have a long term framework established and have some years experience of how investments behave you may reasonably consider managing things yourself

There is a lot of sense in the above post. 

To answer the original post, I started investing about 25 years ago when I started earning well. I met some IFA’s but I didn’t feel comfortable with them, and I am by nature very cynical. I have managed my wealth myself, investing in stock markets. I have done well, but not outstanding. Some people here have done quite a bit better by all accounts, but I have no interest in the minutiae of investing. I buy a range of collective funds and tend to hang on to them. I learnt the basics of investing which has served me well. I’ve lived  through many crashes and prospered. 

However, I started with a £6,000 PEP, in a mediocre fund, which taught me a lesson. Ignore marketing crap, and learn the basics. As Linton says, you’re starting with big money so more caution is advised, at least until you have more understanding of the markets. 

An IFA has no crystal ball. Their job is to determine your risk tolerance, and long term goals, and then build a suitable portfolio. They are regulated, and so there is some protection. I’m sure a resident IFA can explain what protections exist. Their strength is that they are trained, and they know the ropes. Many people sell after a crash, and buy when something is in fashion. An IFA will help you avoid those traps. They do cost a lot, but they are providing a service, and for many people they provide value. Some people either don’t want to follow the markets, or lack confidence in their abilities.

In my own case I sometimes make choices seen as very high risk by an IFA, but I believe they are low risk in the long run, and experience suggests I am right. I also ignore some conventional  wisdom. The advantage of DIY is that you can take a path of your choosing according to your own criteria. An IFA has to protect themselves from being sued, you just have to accept the consequences of your own actions. 

By the way, be wary of accepting the concensus. Few people saw the 2011 crash coming. Economics is, as you surely know, often called the dismal science for good reason. 

dunstonh

You will always reply with "see a financial adviser.

Except none of the advisers here always say that.  So that is a good example of the lies you frequently tell.

They hold the secret formula that you won't be able to discover without paying an IFA". 

Or to normal people, you don't get the job until you agree to pay for it.

Those of us who have had bad experiences with IFAs will come and give our version of how you are better sorting things out for yourself. 

And from those that have never seen an IFA in their life but still make up stories.