gross misconduct - need advice for a friend.

AskAsk

Beepeear said:

AskAsk said:

steampowered said:

Beepeear said:

My friend works in a food store, they told me that before, everyone used to take products to have on their break and then they would usually pay for it at the end of the day, or if forgetting to do so, pay the next possible opportunity, usually the next day. 

Sorry, but I don't believe that your friend was going to pay for these items. I doubt the employer believes him either.

I doubt many of these items that people "forget" to pay for - get paid for the following day !!!!

It sounds like a final warning is the best outcome that can be hoped for. A dismissal is possible. Though it sounds unlikely that the police would be involved.

dismissal is possible as the employer no longer trusts the employee.  it also depends on how many times before the OP has already been caught and warned.  the police won't be involved unless it is a significant theft or the employer wants to make an example of the OP.  

i saw a program last night about steve wright, the suffolk strangler, and he was reported to the police for stealing £80 from the cash register of the pub where he worked.  so for a small theft, the pub decided to report him.

It is the first time he has had an investigation of any kind. He has had meetings in the past but that was for totally unrelated matters, it is the first time he has been suspended or investigated.

it will be for them to investigate how long he has been stealing and so the result of that investigation will determine if they will sack him and involve the police.  it will unlikely involve the police unless they find that he has been pilfering for several years.

as he has been cautioned before, he is not exactly an exemplary employee, so i think the likelihood is that they will get rid of him, as this is perfect timing for them to do so as they now have legitimate reason to sack him and employ someone else who is more honest and who is less of a headache.  the choice is big in this pandemic as so many people are looking for jobs at the moment.

so i think your friend has had it, is my crystal ball analysis on the little bit of information that i have read from this thread.

montyrebel

theft is theft

k12479

AskAsk said:
...they now have legitimate reason to sack him and employ someone else...

In the current circumstances, the cynical might suspect they have reason to do the former but no need for the latter.

AskAsk

k12479 said:

AskAsk said:
...they now have legitimate reason to sack him and employ someone else...

In the current circumstances, the cynical might suspect they have reason to do the former but no need for the latter.

my money is on the latter, that he will get the sack.

Barny1979

Beepeear said:

 He has said that he will happily cover the costs for all the products he has not paid for. 

Most people caught stealing often say this.

Thrugelmir

Beepeear said:

AskAsk said:

Beepeear said:

AskAsk said:

no advice as he has been caught.  whether he intended to steal or not is up for grabs.  he can only hope for the best.

what would you say is the worst case scenario?

what exactly did he take that they have spotted and is this the first time that he has been caught?

Just stuff to have during his break, it is the first time he has been suspended and had an investigation. He has never had this happen before.

What evidence does the employer have? CTV footage, more than one occasion?  Perhaps there's been monitoring for a while as easy to identify shortfalls in stock lines. The introduction of the new policy should have been sufficient warning of a tougher approach. With a line drawn under past practices. 

Beepeear

Thrugelmir said:

Beepeear said:

AskAsk said:

Beepeear said:

AskAsk said:

no advice as he has been caught.  whether he intended to steal or not is up for grabs.  he can only hope for the best.

what would you say is the worst case scenario?

what exactly did he take that they have spotted and is this the first time that he has been caught?

Just stuff to have during his break, it is the first time he has been suspended and had an investigation. He has never had this happen before.

What evidence does the employer have? CTV footage, more than one occasion?  Perhaps there's been monitoring for a while as easy to identify shortfalls in stock lines. The introduction of the new policy should have been sufficient warning of a tougher approach. With a line drawn under past practices. 

I believe the only evidence they would have is CCTV. He said to me that he has forgot to pay for items on more than one occasion but majority of the time the items were paid for the following day. 

Undervalued

Beepeear said:

Thrugelmir said:

Beepeear said:

AskAsk said:

Beepeear said:

AskAsk said:

no advice as he has been caught.  whether he intended to steal or not is up for grabs.  he can only hope for the best.

what would you say is the worst case scenario?

what exactly did he take that they have spotted and is this the first time that he has been caught?

Just stuff to have during his break, it is the first time he has been suspended and had an investigation. He has never had this happen before.

What evidence does the employer have? CTV footage, more than one occasion?  Perhaps there's been monitoring for a while as easy to identify shortfalls in stock lines. The introduction of the new policy should have been sufficient warning of a tougher approach. With a line drawn under past practices. 

I believe the only evidence they would have is CCTV. He said to me that he has forgot to pay for items on more than one occasion but majority of the time the items were paid for the following day. 

To fairly dismiss an employee the employer only needs a "reasonable belief" that the misconduct took place. That is far, far less than the standard of proof that would be needed to secure a criminal conviction (which is beyond a reasonable doubt).

Dismissal would also need to be "within the range of sanctions a reasonable employer might choose". If they have a reasonable belief of theft then dismissal certainly would be a reasonable sanction.

Frankly I don't believe a word of the lame excuses you have trotted out on here on "your friend's" behalf. 

All "your friend" can do is apologise profusely for his "accidental oversights" and hope that the employer is either totally gullible or feeling very generous. 

dinglebert

I believe the only evidence they would have is CCTV. He said to me that he has forgot to pay for items on more than one occasion but majority of the time the items were paid for the following day. 

 So "he" took things without paying on a number of occasions but when remembering "he" hadn't paid for them "he" only then paid some of the time and didn't bother the rest?

John_

KatrinaWaves said:

steampowered said:

Beepeear said:

My friend works in a food store, they told me that before, everyone used to take products to have on their break and then they would usually pay for it at the end of the day, or if forgetting to do so, pay the next possible opportunity, usually the next day. 

Sorry, but I don't believe that your friend was going to pay for these items. I doubt the employer believes him either.

I doubt many of these items that people "forget" to pay for - get paid for the following day !!!!

It sounds like a final warning is the best outcome that can be hoped for. A dismissal is possible. Though it sounds unlikely that the police would be involved.

They’ve already admitted they did forget on several occasions. They can’t blame confusion over the new policy for that. 

That doesn’t really help their case. If I’d forgotten once I’d pay in advance in future to stop it happening again. He can’t claim it’s accidental if he’s made the same “mistake” more than once.