Estimated vs Actual Meter Reading - New home huge discrepancy!

binao

beebee20 said:

Hi I'd love some advice please

I've contacted Citizen's Advice about this and am waiting for them to get back to me but in the meantime I thought I'd seek some help from here. 

I moved into my house on 26/07/2020 and foolishly did not take a photo of my gas meter reading.I wished to change gas supplier and applied to do so several times, but this was rejected due to an outstanding bill at this address from a previous tenant at the property. From speaking with eOn and discussing this, my gas supply from eOn was then cut off as on 01/09/2020. 

Based on the discussions with eOn I know that for the whole duration of time that eOn have been supplying gas to this address, there has NEVER been a physical meter reading, all bills have been based upon ESTIMATED gas usage. However, I provided a meter reading to eON (I am not 100% sure which date that this meter reading was provided to eOn), which was significantly higher than their estimated reading.

Consequently my bill from eOn jumped from £25 to £300 to cover the time period of the 36 days where eOn were supplying gas whilst I lived at this address.

I have spoken with eOn to explain that I have not used this amount, and it is a mistake on their part that their estimated gas usage was not aligned to the actual use because they had never been previously supplied with a physical meter reading. It is only upon me providing this physical meter reading that they have been made aware of this discrepancy.

Consequently I am now being charged for this discrepancy.

I appreciate that I SHOULD have taken a photograph of this meter when I moved in to the property. In have spoken with my landlord who also admits that they do not have a photograph of the physical meter reading either.

However, I cannot pay almost £300 for this gas supply. It is not logistically possible that I, as a single resident at this property, could have spent this much on gas use, in the 36 days I resided at this property when they were supplying my gas use. This was also the period of an exceptionally hot summer!

 

Based on two conversations with both the customer service department and the collections team at eOn, neither have been able to resolve this issue.They say they can set up installments as I can't pay it outright right now. 

Please can someone help / provide advice?!
Thank you BeeBee

Thank you for responding to  my earlier questions.

The dramatic "cut off" turned out to be  "change of supplier", who to please?

Please give details of refused changes. You said several.

What was the "issue" with the electric?

Please confirm details of your rented 1st? house, for a single person, with an unpaid £300 gas bill and your still permitted change of supplier.

Forumites need full and accurate information.

Maybe  this thread will end,  in the same way has some other threads have, at this time.

Good luck. 

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena

Petriix said:

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena said:

Morning beebee20,

Thanks for the reply, that makes things a bit clearer. I see the gas wasn't cut off it was a change of supply.

macman and Dolor have answered things really, we do need customers to contact us when they move in to a property and take over responsibility, as we don't know when people move in and out. This is when we would take the reading.

It's good that the account has been billed to an accurate final read, without any accurate start reads this will have to remain estimated.

I'm sorry that I can't help further.

Helena

That's utter nonsense I'm afraid, and if that's E.ON's official line then I can understand why the OP is frustrated. If an opening meter reading was not supplied then E.ON are obliged to attempt to make an accurate estimate rather than simply attempting to charge the new customer for the previous occupier's usage. The gas bill for an entire year in my house (with four occupants, gas CH, water heating and hob) is under £250. The estimated start reading is obviously wrong and there is no way that the OP should pay that bill.

The way to get a fair opening reading is to take the date of the first 'actual' reading and work backwards using the industry standard estimate for the type of property and number of occupants at that time of year. Alternatively they can monitor actual usage from the period after that first reading and project it backwards, accounting for seasonal change in usage. It might help if you have a record of heating usage (possible from smart heating controls) or at least look at temperature data for the period to make a reasonable guess as to whether any heating was used at all (hint: likely not).

As E.ON are clearly being unreasonable, you need to jump through a couple of hoops in order to get the case to the ombudsman for resolution. If I were the OP, I would simply make a reasonable estimate and then go back to E.ON and say that you've found the original opening reading from when you moved in. You are likely to have used less than £10 worth of gas.

OP: If you want more detailed help then:

• please try to find out what the first actual meter reading supplied to E.ON actually was and on what date it was taken
• also provide a new reading taken today
• confirm the current status of the supply: is it cut off, still supplied by E.ON or with a different supplier
• let us know if there are similar issues with electricity
  

Hi,

I did say in my first post.. If no one has taken a read from the date the property changed hands, we will have to use an estimated start read. As you have changed supplier, please check that the final read matches the start read you have given to your new supplier.

Estimates are based on the previous usage at the property. They can be altered where actual meter readings are available. We do, though, need to be sure they're accurate as changing them will have a knock on effect for the previous occupier as it will lead to a revised bill for them.

We need to ensure the account is opened from the correct date, so customers only pay for the energy that they use and not for previous occupiers, but if a read hasn't been provided we will use an estimate. The OP has confirmed they have now changed supplier, the supply wasn't cut off, so future reads will be provided to their new supplier.

The OP also mentioned the electricity is pre-payment and no current issues.

Thank you

Helena

Petriix

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena said:

Petriix said:

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena said:

Morning beebee20,

Thanks for the reply, that makes things a bit clearer. I see the gas wasn't cut off it was a change of supply.

macman and Dolor have answered things really, we do need customers to contact us when they move in to a property and take over responsibility, as we don't know when people move in and out. This is when we would take the reading.

It's good that the account has been billed to an accurate final read, without any accurate start reads this will have to remain estimated.

I'm sorry that I can't help further.

Helena

That's utter nonsense I'm afraid, and if that's E.ON's official line then I can understand why the OP is frustrated. If an opening meter reading was not supplied then E.ON are obliged to attempt to make an accurate estimate rather than simply attempting to charge the new customer for the previous occupier's usage. The gas bill for an entire year in my house (with four occupants, gas CH, water heating and hob) is under £250. The estimated start reading is obviously wrong and there is no way that the OP should pay that bill.

The way to get a fair opening reading is to take the date of the first 'actual' reading and work backwards using the industry standard estimate for the type of property and number of occupants at that time of year. Alternatively they can monitor actual usage from the period after that first reading and project it backwards, accounting for seasonal change in usage. It might help if you have a record of heating usage (possible from smart heating controls) or at least look at temperature data for the period to make a reasonable guess as to whether any heating was used at all (hint: likely not).

As E.ON are clearly being unreasonable, you need to jump through a couple of hoops in order to get the case to the ombudsman for resolution. If I were the OP, I would simply make a reasonable estimate and then go back to E.ON and say that you've found the original opening reading from when you moved in. You are likely to have used less than £10 worth of gas.

OP: If you want more detailed help then:

• please try to find out what the first actual meter reading supplied to E.ON actually was and on what date it was taken
• also provide a new reading taken today
• confirm the current status of the supply: is it cut off, still supplied by E.ON or with a different supplier
• let us know if there are similar issues with electricity
  

Hi,

I did say in my first post.. If no one has taken a read from the date the property changed hands, we will have to use an estimated start read. As you have changed supplier, please check that the final read matches the start read you have given to your new supplier.

Estimates are based on the previous usage at the property. They can be altered where actual meter readings are available. We do, though, need to be sure they're accurate as changing them will have a knock on effect for the previous occupier as it will lead to a revised bill for them.

We need to ensure the account is opened from the correct date, so customers only pay for the energy that they use and not for previous occupiers, but if a read hasn't been provided we will use an estimate. The OP has confirmed they have now changed supplier, the supply wasn't cut off, so future reads will be provided to their new supplier.

The OP also mentioned the electricity is pre-payment and no current issues.

Thank you

Helena

You should be offering a path to resolution by suggesting how a more accurate opening estimate can be reached rather than deferring all responsibility to the customer. As things stand your company are demanding payment for an unreasonable bill. We all know why this has happened, but I don't see any kind of attempt to put it right.

binao

Petriix said:

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena said:

Morning beebee20,

Thanks for the reply, that makes things a bit clearer. I see the gas wasn't cut off it was a change of supply.

macman and Dolor have answered things really, we do need customers to contact us when they move in to a property and take over responsibility, as we don't know when people move in and out. This is when we would take the reading.

It's good that the account has been billed to an accurate final read, without any accurate start reads this will have to remain estimated.

I'm sorry that I can't help further.

Helena

That's utter nonsense I'm afraid, and if that's E.ON's official line then I can understand why the OP is frustrated. If an opening meter reading was not supplied then E.ON are obliged to attempt to make an accurate estimate rather than simply attempting to charge the new customer for the previous occupier's usage. The gas bill for an entire year in my house (with four occupants, gas CH, water heating and hob) is under £250. The estimated start reading is obviously wrong and there is no way that the OP should pay that bill.

• Please confirm  the current status of the supply: is it cut off, still supplied by E.ON or with a different supplier

Edited, incomplete quote.

I can help you.

The dramatic cut off turned out to be change of supplier, to unknown supplier, after several attempts, and with an outstanding bill.

Surely it is the responsibility of the customer to take the "moving in" readings. With photo if possible.  

Please read the compleat thread. Helena is only trying to help.

 Please have a look at my other  posts in this thread.

I'm  sure you mean well.

beebee20

Petriix said:

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Helena said:

Morning beebee20,

Thanks for the reply, that makes things a bit clearer. I see the gas wasn't cut off it was a change of supply.

macman and Dolor have answered things really, we do need customers to contact us when they move in to a property and take over responsibility, as we don't know when people move in and out. This is when we would take the reading.

It's good that the account has been billed to an accurate final read, without any accurate start reads this will have to remain estimated.

I'm sorry that I can't help further.

Helena

That's utter nonsense I'm afraid, and if that's E.ON's official line then I can understand why the OP is frustrated. If an opening meter reading was not supplied then E.ON are obliged to attempt to make an accurate estimate rather than simply attempting to charge the new customer for the previous occupier's usage. The gas bill for an entire year in my house (with four occupants, gas CH, water heating and hob) is under £250. The estimated start reading is obviously wrong and there is no way that the OP should pay that bill.

The way to get a fair opening reading is to take the date of the first 'actual' reading and work backwards using the industry standard estimate for the type of property and number of occupants at that time of year. Alternatively they can monitor actual usage from the period after that first reading and project it backwards, accounting for seasonal change in usage. It might help if you have a record of heating usage (possible from smart heating controls) or at least look at temperature data for the period to make a reasonable guess as to whether any heating was used at all (hint: likely not).

As E.ON are clearly being unreasonable, you need to jump through a couple of hoops in order to get the case to the ombudsman for resolution. If I were the OP, I would simply make a reasonable estimate and then go back to E.ON and say that you've found the original opening reading from when you moved in. You are likely to have used less than £10 worth of gas.

OP: If you want more detailed help then:

• please try to find out what the first actual meter reading supplied to E.ON actually was and on what date it was taken
• also provide a new reading taken today
• confirm the current status of the supply: is it cut off, still supplied by E.ON or with a different supplier
• let us know if there are similar issues with electricity
  

Thank you so much. This is definitely more helpful. 
I was struggling with the fact it was literally impossible for a single resident to consume £300 worth of gas in 36 days over a summer month. 

I will definitely look in to doing this and will report back any progress I make.

Unfortunately all of my communication with eOn thus far has followed the same line as Helena.

Beebee

Carrot007

beebee20 said:

Thank you so much. This is definitely more helpful. 
I was struggling with the fact it was literally impossible for a single resident to consume £300 worth of gas in 36 days over a summer month. 

I will definitely look in to doing this and will report back any progress I make.

Unfortunately all of my communication with eOn thus far has followed the same line as Helena.

Beebee

Thanking p[eople with bad advice is not going to help you.

A COO (change of occupier) situation is alway 99.9% on the said occupier as the supplier cannot know about it unless informed. I will assume the previous occupier did not contact them either, then are more to blame than eon is, but they probably had reasons to not contact or indeed contact and use a fake reading.

Everything you get is going to be goodwill, so hey try to be nice to anyone on the phone. WHo probably will not have any authority to do anything.

Realms of possibility in consuption is another non starter. Catch up bills happen all the time and make such things occur. Maybe you can take the previous occupier to court to reclaim the money. It sounds like they tried to avoid paying it and so it moves to you.

This would never happen with a smart meter so I hope you now plan to get one installed.

mac.d

Apart from doing as Carrot007 says and speaking very nicely to Eon to see if you can come to some kind of agreement, the only other option is to raise it as a complaint and providing regular meter readings yourself for a couple of months for them to then base your 36 days usage with Eon on that. If Eon don't agree, you could go to the ombudsman, and they may well just side with Eon to base it on their estimates.

The fact is, if there are no recent usage details for the gas supply, they base it on estimates from previous use, as there is nothing else they can do. It's not Eon's fault that the previous tenant didn't provide readings, and that you didn't take a meter reading when you moved in. The onus is on you to check your usage. Raise it as a complaint, but use it as a lesson in always taking meter readings when you move into a new place.

Gerry1

This is surely something that the mysterious third party's process should detect. Sadly it seems intended only for a customer changing suppliers rather than the far more important case of the occupier changing.  Obviously the best solution would be a moving out notification triggering a visit by meter reader.

In any case, why can't the energy companies automatically send a letter to the new occupier summarising the process that has to be followed, i.e. registering and sending the opening meter reading(s)?  The industry doesn't seem to be doing very much to put its house in order.

Petriix

It definitely isn't 'bad advice' to challenge an obviously erroneous bill. Just because a (seemingly very common) mistake was made by the customer doesn't mean they suddenly become liable for the previous occupier's usage.

It would be fairly trivial to prove 'on the balance of probabilities' (which is the legal threshold for a civil matter such as this) that a more reasonable opening reading should be used should this alleged 'debt' ever reach court. It would be prudent for E.ON to proactively seek a sensible outcome. The ombudsman will not look kindly on a spurious claim for an unrealistic bill.

British Gas ended up paying me a £30 good will payment after trying a similar trick when I moved into my first house; albeit I did have a record of the meter readings.

The simple solution is for the OP to 'miraculously' find their opening readings on a slip of paper in the meter cupboard. Wink, wink.

[Deleted User]

Gerry1 said:

This is surely something that the mysterious third party's process should detect. Sadly it seems intended only for a customer changing suppliers rather than the far more important case of the occupier changing.  Obviously the best solution would be a moving out notification triggering a visit by meter reader.

In any case, why can't the energy companies automatically send a letter to the new occupier summarising the process that has to be followed, i.e. registering and sending the opening meter reading(s)?  The industry doesn't seem to be doing very much to put its house in order.

How on earth is a supplier going to know that a meter reader visit is required when a tenant leaving a property does not inform them that they are leaving, and the tenant moving in doesn't call them with a meter reading? Up until the 31st October, there have been 4.98M* electricity switches so far this year (excluding tariff changes with the same supplier). Despite what one might think from reading this MSE forum, it is probably fair to say that a very very high number of those switches went through without any switching or billing issues. If some people do not play by the rules, or are unaware of them, then problems will occur. The answer is not more letters, or meter reader visits. In truth, it would probably cost suppliers £Ms less just to write-off the disputed bills but, thankfully, I doubt that this will happen.

The mysterious data collector as you put it is, like the supplier, none clairvoyant. Consumers have to take some personal responsibility for the management of their energy accounts, OR allow their supplier to fit a smart meter.

* Source: Gemserv/EnergyWatch UK