PIP: Overturning a decision, what happens the next time?

[Deleted User]

Hi guys,

My mother is currently of PIP/motability and her last assessment (3 years back) was denied and she had to go back and fight the outcome. They finally awarded her after she
compiled evidence of her condition.

Her renewal is due any day now so my question is about people who were denied/overturned, does this pretty much set the standard for future outcomes i.e making it even harder to be accepted.

(This is for my curiosity as my mother just mentioned there is a chance of being denied. Reading the stories is quite horrifying!)

Thank you.

born_again

Was it overturned on Mandatory reconsideration or did it go to a tribunal?

Spoonie_Turtle

I'd have thought that for her reassessment she should use the arguments/reasoning and evidence that led to the correct decision when she had to fight for it last time.

To be honest it seems to be down to the individual decision maker whether they look at the whole case - certainly there are horror stories, but sometimes people are phoned up for more information so the decision maker can make the most informed decision possible. The process is supposed to work, the people involved are supposed to do their jobs - but at the moment it seems a bit of a lottery whether you get someone who will or not. And of course there are cases when period do through the process, get the correct award straight away, and never have need to turn to the internet so we don't often hear about them.

MalMonroe

Yes, I'm afraid it does set a terrible standard. My friend who was claiming PIP and whose circumstances have not changed at all, was recently expecting her fresh application to be easier. But it wasn't and she was turned down and ended up having to go to Tribunal, where PIP was reinstated and she was told she'd be receiving the backpay she was entitled to. Instead of simply renewing her PIP, the 'system' made her go through hell and she was ill for weeks before, during and after. Thank goodness she had a great advocate from Citizens Advice (who don't always get good press on here). They could have simply renewed her entitlement in the first place.

It really is horrendous the way people who are deserving of PIP are treated and I believe that investigations are now being carried out into the way public money is being wasted on benefit refusal and tribunals. Especially when the benefits are found to be deserved in the end.

I do hope your mother won't have to be subjected to any of that. It's so cruel. And also, really unnecessary when people are entitled to receive such benefits.

[Deleted User]

born_again said:

Was it overturned on Mandatory reconsideration or did it go to a tribunal?

I believe it was the tribunal.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I'd have thought that for her reassessment she should use the arguments/reasoning and evidence that led to the correct decision when she had to fight for it last time.

To be honest it seems to be down to the individual decision maker whether they look at the whole case - certainly there are horror stories, but sometimes people are phoned up for more information so the decision maker can make the most informed decision possible. The process is supposed to work, the people involved are supposed to do their jobs - but at the moment it seems a bit of a lottery whether you get someone who will or not. And of course there are cases when period do through the process, get the correct award straight away, and never have need to turn to the internet so we don't often hear about them.

Thank you, very interesting. It's scary reading up on some of the stories. I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see, she's already started gathering as much evidence as she can but as you say, hopefully the last lot should be good.MalMonroe said:

Yes, I'm afraid it does set a terrible standard. My friend who was claiming PIP and whose circumstances have not changed at all, was recently expecting her fresh application to be easier. But it wasn't and she was turned down and ended up having to go to Tribunal, where PIP was reinstated and she was told she'd be receiving the backpay she was entitled to. Instead of simply renewing her PIP, the 'system' made her go through hell and she was ill for weeks before, during and after. Thank goodness she had a great advocate from Citizens Advice (who don't always get good press on here). They could have simply renewed her entitlement in the first place.

It really is horrendous the way people who are deserving of PIP are treated and I believe that investigations are now being carried out into the way public money is being wasted on benefit refusal and tribunals. Especially when the benefits are found to be deserved in the end.

I do hope your mother won't have to be subjected to any of that. It's so cruel. And also, really unnecessary when people are entitled to receive such benefits.

That's a shame. My mum said the same thing about Citizens advice, they helped her last time and it was a Life saver! Hopefully they're still operating in person at the moment.
I never knew the hoops people had to jump through before reading the stories, for some reason I thought it was a hassle free experience.

poppy12345

Ironkettleblack said:

born_again said:

Was it overturned on Mandatory reconsideration or did it go to a tribunal?

I believe it was the tribunal.

Spoonie_Turtle said:

I'd have thought that for her reassessment she should use the arguments/reasoning and evidence that led to the correct decision when she had to fight for it last time.

To be honest it seems to be down to the individual decision maker whether they look at the whole case - certainly there are horror stories, but sometimes people are phoned up for more information so the decision maker can make the most informed decision possible. The process is supposed to work, the people involved are supposed to do their jobs - but at the moment it seems a bit of a lottery whether you get someone who will or not. And of course there are cases when period do through the process, get the correct award straight away, and never have need to turn to the internet so we don't often hear about them.

Thank you, very interesting. It's scary reading up on some of the stories. I'll guess we'll just have to wait and see, she's already started gathering as much evidence as she can but as you say, hopefully the last lot should be good.MalMonroe said:

Yes, I'm afraid it does set a terrible standard. My friend who was claiming PIP and whose circumstances have not changed at all, was recently expecting her fresh application to be easier. But it wasn't and she was turned down and ended up having to go to Tribunal, where PIP was reinstated and she was told she'd be receiving the backpay she was entitled to. Instead of simply renewing her PIP, the 'system' made her go through hell and she was ill for weeks before, during and after. Thank goodness she had a great advocate from Citizens Advice (who don't always get good press on here). They could have simply renewed her entitlement in the first place.

It really is horrendous the way people who are deserving of PIP are treated and I believe that investigations are now being carried out into the way public money is being wasted on benefit refusal and tribunals. Especially when the benefits are found to be deserved in the end.

I do hope your mother won't have to be subjected to any of that. It's so cruel. And also, really unnecessary when people are entitled to receive such benefits.

Hopefully they're still operating in person at the moment.

You'll be extremely lucky to find this anywhere in the UK right now. They are open for telephone appointments only.

Alice_Holt

I would suggest explaining fully the difficulties your mother has with the PIP activities on the renewal form / PIP2 form - this will involve additional sheets. 
Enclose a copy of the tribunal decision notice, and a confirming letter from yourself / her carer of the help she needs with the PIP activities.  If her condition / abilities have not improved since the tribunal device then provide evidence of this. 
If she got help from Citizens Advice for her tribunal then they would have written a statement detailing why an award should be given, if she has retained this it will help her complete the renewal form.

In preparation she could start writing a diary, making sure she understands the PIP points system, and the concept of reliably in PIP decisions :
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice (public)/pip-diary.pdf
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form/
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

I'm not sure if the assessing HCP would be aware of the points awarded by the tribunal. If the paperwork they have is the current renewal form, previous (failed) assessment and PIP form - then there is a clear danger if in a renewal form / PIP 2 form it is stated that the claimants abilities are unchanged and little additional information / evidence is given.
   

[Deleted User]

Alice_Holt said:

I would suggest explaining fully the difficulties your mother has with the PIP activities on the renewal form / PIP2 form - this will involve additional sheets. 
Enclose a copy of the tribunal decision notice, and a confirming letter from yourself / her carer of the help she needs with the PIP activities.  If her condition / abilities have not improved since the tribunal device then provide evidence of this. 
If she got help from Citizens Advice for her tribunal then they would have written a statement detailing why an award should be given, if she has retained this it will help her complete the renewal form.

In preparation she could start writing a diary, making sure she understands the PIP points system, and the concept of reliably in PIP decisions :
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Documents/Advice (public)/pip-diary.pdf
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form/
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably

I'm not sure if the assessing HCP would be aware of the points awarded by the tribunal. If the paperwork they have is the current renewal form, previous (failed) assessment and PIP form - then there is a clear danger if in a renewal form / PIP 2 form it is stated that the claimants abilities are unchanged and little additional information / evidence is given.
   

Thanks guys and Thank you Alice, very helpful. Will take note.

Porter44

Ironkettleblack said:

Hi guys,

My mother is currently of PIP/motability and her last assessment (3 years back) was denied and she had to go back and fight the outcome. They finally awarded her after she
compiled evidence of her condition.

Her renewal is due any day now so my question is about people who were denied/overturned, does this pretty much set the standard for future outcomes i.e making it even harder to be accepted.

(This is for my curiosity as my mother just mentioned there is a chance of being denied. Reading the stories is quite horrifying!)

Thank you.