Sign on bonus - clawback on giving notice?

Farel01

Hi folks, 
Hope someone can make sense of some vague wording! 
I currently work in a job that I'm not loving and is incredibly stressful. Now I got an offer from another company that looks like it's amazing. Easy choice right? However there's one big issue and it's my sign on bonus... I have a 3 month notice period, if I give notice now I'd be leaving after my first year is up but my notice would be given before the year is up. Yes I can pay it back, but in these uncertain times it would eat up a lot of my savings and yes I should have saved it but unfortunately that's hindsight..

Could someone have a look at this wording and give an opinion on whether I'd need to pay this back? 

If your employment with the Company is terminated within the first 12 months of your employment because of your resignation or for misconduct, then the Sign-On Bonus will become repayable to the Company in full.
Employment terminating 0-12 months from your employment start date 100%
Employment terminating more than 12 months from your employment start date 0%
Any repayment due will be deducted from your monthly salary or from any other payments due to you from the Company on the termination of your employment. In the event that there are insufficient funds to reimburse the Company, you will be required to repay the outstanding balance within seven working days of your last day of employment.

Thanks!! xxx

Farel

KatrinaWaves

You employment doesnt end until the end of your notice period, so I think you should be fine. ~notalawyer

Takeaway_Addict

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

TELLIT01

Takeaway_Addict said:

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

If sacked, the employer could only reclaim the signing on bonus if they can show the reason for sacking is misconduct.

Undervalued

Takeaway_Addict said:

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

Yes, they certainly could!

The OP doesn't say how much notice the company has to give them to terminate. Statutory would only be one week and nothing says the contractual notice period has to be equal both ways. If it is not, it is certainly not uncommon to dismiss somebody within the two years if they give notice and the company has the option of getting rid of them sooner.

Farel01

Undervalued said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

Yes, they certainly could!

The OP doesn't say how much notice the company has to give them to terminate. Statutory would only be one week and nothing says the contractual notice period has to be equal both ways. If it is not, it is certainly not uncommon to dismiss somebody within the two years if they give notice and the company has the option of getting rid of them sooner.

It goes both ways, I am out of my probationary period so they have to give me 3 months notice as well. Just checked my contract to be sure. 

After your probationary period, either party can end your employment by giving 3 months' written notice or, if greater one week’s notice for each complete year of employment up to a maximum of 12 weeks’ notice

Takeaway_Addict

TELLIT01 said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

If sacked, the employer could only reclaim the signing on bonus if they can show the reason for sacking is misconduct.

For the first point yes but the second point is arguable if the employer wished it to be

Undervalued

Farel01 said:

Undervalued said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

Yes, they certainly could!

The OP doesn't say how much notice the company has to give them to terminate. Statutory would only be one week and nothing says the contractual notice period has to be equal both ways. If it is not, it is certainly not uncommon to dismiss somebody within the two years if they give notice and the company has the option of getting rid of them sooner.

It goes both ways, I am out of my probationary period so they have to give me 3 months notice as well. Just checked my contract to be sure. 

After your probationary period, either party can end your employment by giving 3 months' written notice or, if greater one week’s notice for each complete year of employment up to a maximum of 12 weeks’ notice

Even so you need to check if the contract reserves the right for them to make payment in lieu of notice (PILON).

If it does then the could try and argue that your employment end immediately (although you would still get three months pay as PILON). 

If it doesn't then technically they would be in breach of contract by not letting you work your notice. Normally it is a moot point as people are generally delighted to get paid and not have to work! However this is one of the few situations where you may lose out if they did that. IF there is no PILON provision then, if they did that, you may have a valid breach of contract claim against them.

Farel01

Undervalued said:

Farel01 said:

Undervalued said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

Yes, they certainly could!

The OP doesn't say how much notice the company has to give them to terminate. Statutory would only be one week and nothing says the contractual notice period has to be equal both ways. If it is not, it is certainly not uncommon to dismiss somebody within the two years if they give notice and the company has the option of getting rid of them sooner.

It goes both ways, I am out of my probationary period so they have to give me 3 months notice as well. Just checked my contract to be sure. 

After your probationary period, either party can end your employment by giving 3 months' written notice or, if greater one week’s notice for each complete year of employment up to a maximum of 12 weeks’ notice

Even so you need to check if the contract reserves the right for them to make payment in lieu of notice (PILON).

If it does then the could try and argue that your employment end immediately (although you would still get three months pay as PILON). 

If it doesn't then technically they would be in breach of contract by not letting you work your notice. Normally it is a moot point as people are generally delighted to get paid and not have to work! However this is one of the few situations where you may lose out if they did that. IF there is no PILON provision then, if they did that, you may have a valid breach of contract claim against them.

So yes that option is in my contract, though I have not heard of anyone that's had that happen to them. 
We can, at our absolute discretion, end your employment with immediate effect by notifying you that we are exercising our right under this clause and that we will make a payment to you of an amount equal to your base salary for the remainder of your notice period (less required deductions).

I guess just need to either stick it out, probably lose the new job, or take the chance that I might have to pay it back. On the other hand if they do PILON me I could start work at new employer 3 months earlier and use the pretty much double salary to pay it back. 

Undervalued

Farel01 said:

Undervalued said:

Farel01 said:

Undervalued said:

Takeaway_Addict said:

I guess they could sack you and PILON and claim the signing bonus against that payment...

Yes, they certainly could!

The OP doesn't say how much notice the company has to give them to terminate. Statutory would only be one week and nothing says the contractual notice period has to be equal both ways. If it is not, it is certainly not uncommon to dismiss somebody within the two years if they give notice and the company has the option of getting rid of them sooner.

It goes both ways, I am out of my probationary period so they have to give me 3 months notice as well. Just checked my contract to be sure. 

After your probationary period, either party can end your employment by giving 3 months' written notice or, if greater one week’s notice for each complete year of employment up to a maximum of 12 weeks’ notice

Even so you need to check if the contract reserves the right for them to make payment in lieu of notice (PILON).

If it does then the could try and argue that your employment end immediately (although you would still get three months pay as PILON). 

If it doesn't then technically they would be in breach of contract by not letting you work your notice. Normally it is a moot point as people are generally delighted to get paid and not have to work! However this is one of the few situations where you may lose out if they did that. IF there is no PILON provision then, if they did that, you may have a valid breach of contract claim against them.

So yes that option is in my contract, though I have not heard of anyone that's had that happen to them. 
We can, at our absolute discretion, end your employment with immediate effect by notifying you that we are exercising our right under this clause and that we will make a payment to you of an amount equal to your base salary for the remainder of your notice period (less required deductions).

I guess just need to either stick it out, probably lose the new job, or take the chance that I might have to pay it back. On the other hand if they do PILON me I could start work at new employer 3 months earlier and use the pretty much double salary to pay it back. 

I think the chances of them trying to PILON then claw back are fairly slim. 

This biggest problem sometimes in these sort of situations is that they simply deduct the amount from your final salary, rightly or wrongly, leaving you to sue to claw the money back if you feel they are in the wrong. If they have that mindset there is little you can do to stop them doing so, even though you may eventually win it back.

Savvy_Sue

Farel01 said:

I guess just need to either stick it out, probably lose the new job, or take the chance that I might have to pay it back. On the other hand if they do PILON me I could start work at new employer 3 months earlier and use the pretty much double salary to pay it back. 

Given that double salary, I'd take the risk.