Legalities - Faulty 2nd Hans Car

Biggus_Dickus · 10 November 2020 at 11:48AM

The thread title brings to mind that joke about the guy who removed all the German contacts from his mobile phone,... then declared it ‘Hans Free’.

...sorry...I’ll get me’ coat.

AdrianC · 10 November 2020 at 11:52AM

foxy-stoat said:

As the V5 isn't proof of ownership the only piece of paper you should have is a receipt for the cash you handed over.

Lesson learned, move on, dont waste time and money on legal proceedings, you will need as much as you can to repair the car. Get a second opinion on the gearbox fault as the main dealer will just quote for a new box when it may only need a part inside. Take it to an auto gearbox specialist.

It may even be as simple as a fluid change (or several) together with changing the box filters. That's always a good, cheap starting point for autobox shenanigans on older cars.

ToxicWomble · 10 November 2020 at 11:57AM

Sold as seen surely still has to abide by an accurate description.
Mechanically sound - yes. —- it probably wasn’t, proving it may be more difficult.

I probably wouldn’t let a stranger drive a car I was selling either unless they could demonstrate they were covered fully comp.
If the seller came on here saying a buyer took it for a drive and crashed it and wasn’t covered - most would say “tough” so that sounded like a wise precaution by the seller. It may also have conveniently covered up the gearbox fault.

foxy-stoat · 10 November 2020 at 1:10PM

A lay-person asking another lay-person if a secondhand car is mechanically sound will not hold any weight if it ever went to a small claims court.

If the seller was a trader selling as a private person then that would be the only option - reject it.

Ditzy_Mitzy · 10 November 2020 at 1:21PM

Caveat emptor, of course, but playing Devil's advocate: is it possible that the seller didn't actually know there was anything wrong with the gearbox? One car in my household is an automatic Ford (not mine, not a Powershift) and it's not great. The car is almost new and is working properly, it does occasionally fluff the gearchanges and not make them that smoothly. My friend has an auto Ford too, that I've been a passenger in many times, and that's not completely smooth either. The trick is, I've found, to adapt one's driving to the fact that there's a dim-witted lump of metal and turbine full of jelly between the engine and the wheels.
Viciously prodding the accelerator does make the torque converter spin, as noted, and causes the box to change down too far and change up again; it gets quite upset. The OP, unused to an automatic, may be doing something similar.
The seller, on the other hand, was perfectly used to driving an automatic; he may, therefore, have worked out ways of driving the car such that the minor fault with selecting first gear was not apparent. Bringing the car to a gentle stop rather than slamming on the brakes, for example, might allow a more gentle selection of the gear. It probably will need fixing at some point, however, depending on what's wrong with it.

[Deleted User] · 10 November 2020 at 3:04PM

macman said:

Context needed. Model, price paid, age, mileage, cost quoted for repair?

We need this from the OP ^^^^
Makes all the difference, the Ford Powershift has some known issues but sometimes can be solved simply.

When was the gearbox last serviced? It is vital with the power shift gearboxes that they are serviced at regular intervals and as a buyer you should really ask that.

Ashley2020 · 11 November 2020 at 5:08PM

“We need this from the OP ^^^^
Makes all the difference, the Ford Powershift has some known issues but sometimes can be solved simply.“

It’s a 2010 Ford Kuga.

Paid £4,500
81k miles
quoted for a new processor (might not fix problem) - £1,800 +vat
or
new gearbox - £3,600 +vat

it had a “GOLD” service last year and came with lots of service history but nothing to say that gearbox oil/filter had been changed.

I watched a YouTube video last night and gearbox oil change looks fairly simple so will do this myself as this was also quoted as an option to prolong any possible damage (quoted around £400)

AdrianC · 11 November 2020 at 5:15PM

So, yes, it's the dreaded Powershift automated manual box, not a proper auto. The F might be redundant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_PowerShift_transmission
"The transmission proved problematic even before it was released, with all installed units exhibiting failure behavior such as slipping or surging during launches, poor shift quality, and uncommanded shifts into neutral resulting in loss of power. Investigations have revealed that Ford's engineers and management were aware of the transmission problems before and after launching, and knew that the transmission was not capable of achieving an acceptable operation, yet chose to use the transmission anyway. Production workers have stated that cars with this transmission exhibited problems on their first drive off of the production line."