Childcare fees lockdown 2.0

Sjp301

I have 2 children affected in nursery affected in slightly different ways

Child A - key worker has tested positive for COVID and therefore all children are required to self isolate for 2 weeks

Child B - different nursery updated their policy as a direct result of the above and advice from your early years team to exclude all children where a member of their household is self isolating for a period of 7 days.

Both settings are charging full fees for the 14 and 7 day period respectively. I do not believe this should be the case as Child A’s nursery are unable to provide childcare as they are closed and Child B’s nursery has chosen to exclude despite government guidelines allowing them to continue attending as it is only the affected child which requires to isolate.

This is all new as last lockdown everywhere closed and no fees were due. I can’t find any guidance for these partial lockdowns/self isolation. As I have had to take unpaid leave and pay childcare
costs I am keen to understand the correct position - I’m sure it won’t be the last time we have to self isolate this winter!!!

Grumpy_chap

Certainly in the case of child A, it looks like it is the nursery that is unable to provide services and should not charge fees IMO.
Child B case is less clear-cut.
Is there any possibility of your employer agreeing to furlough and / or allowing part time WFH?

Mrsn

Agreed agreed with grumpy chap I do not believe it is fair they are charging you for Child A’s fees given the closure is out of your control and the service can not be provided. 

With child B is it worth getting in contact with the local authority children’s education service that the nursery falls under and explain the predicament. They might be able to put something in writing or signpost you elsewhere to help you fight the I shouldn’t haven’t to pay because this is your decision kind of thing. I feel for you because that isn’t in the guidance and will certainly make things much more difficult for you.

Thrugelmir

With no income Nursery A may not be financially viable.  Somebody has to bear the cost of Covid unfortunately.  

epm-84

Thrugelmir said:

With no income Nursery A may not be financially viable.  Somebody has to bear the cost of Covid unfortunately.  

Businesses forced due to COVID to close can apply to their local council for a grant.

Grumpy_chap

Nursery A can also claim furlough for the staff.

It would seem wrong if Nursery A could close, still charge all their customers full fees, and claim furlough and claim LA grant.  In this scenario, the profits could be higher than if they stayed open.  I am assuming that the income for a Nursery is solely or wholly from the child-care fees and there is little to be made through "extras". 

AFAIK, a nursery is not like, for example, a big modern gym which probably derives a substantial amount of income from the non-membership fees through "add-ons" such as restaurant and bar, spa / massage / beauty treatments, office desks, creche, PT sessions.

Mrsn

Grumpy_chap said:

Nursery A can also claim furlough for the staff.

It would seem wrong if Nursery A could close, still charge all their customers full fees, and claim furlough and claim LA grant.  In this scenario, the profits could be higher than if they stayed open.  I am assuming that the income for a Nursery is solely or wholly from the child-care fees and there is little to be made through "extras". 

AFAIK, a nursery is not like, for example, a big modern gym which probably derives a substantial amount of income from the non-membership fees through "add-ons" such as restaurant and bar, spa / massage / beauty treatments, office desks, creche, PT sessions.

There may be an issue with them claiming furlough. 

Last time the furlough was paid at roughly 58% because of the 3-4 year old funding they had also received but that still didn’t cover everything in relation to staff outgoings and other expenses.

I‘m not saying that makes it ok for them to charge fees etc but I know the furlough part isn’t as straightforward in that sector.

Grumpy_chap

Thanks Mrsn - Yes, I had forgotten that CJRS may be reduced if there is Government funding in part of the income.  BUT, I understood the rationale for that restriction was that the Government funding continued, so for the Government to also pay  the wage-bill would be double-dipping?  I am happy to be corrected.

Mrsn

Grumpy_chap said:

Thanks Mrsn - Yes, I had forgotten that CJRS may be reduced if there is Government funding in part of the income.  BUT, I understood the rationale for that restriction was that the Government funding continued, so for the Government to also pay  the wage-bill would be double-dipping?  I am happy to be corrected.

That was certainly the intention behind it but from what I recall from friends who work in private nurseries there was a shortfall between the amounts. 

LA funding for the 3-4 year old per child hourly doesn’t even meet NMW so it was always going to be difficult I think but absolutely correct that no sector should be making a profit from furlough.