FTB - lowered ceilings in victorian conversion

Jeepers_Creepers

kacy89 said:

Yes, good point. I guess a risk in purchasing. I don't think the ceilings will fall down, but the property is at the maximum of my budget and I am really looking for period features such as high ceiling and big windows. The lowered ceiling does put me off a bit, and then I wonder if works do come up will I be able to afford them. So I guess that is the risk. 

Doozergirl said: You haven't given us a reason why it mkacy89 said:

Thank you all for your responses. 
I haven't asked the LL anything really. All I've done so far is ask the estate agent why the ceilings might have been lowered, and he suggested to install spotlights, but I highly doubt it. I'm also a bit nervous as to why the place is being sold below market price. I wonder if since the owner is selling after 20 years there might be some major works required. It is a shame since the place is in a great location, but it seems like a big risk. 

1) You are looking for period features like high ceilings and big windows. Does the flat already have the latter? If so, you are half way there. Could you live with not having the ceilings raised? If so, then it doesn't make the flat a non-starter, but there remains the possibility (quite high, I'd have thought) of having the ceilings raised a fair amount.

2) "...a bit." How much is 'a bit'?

3) Yes, an unexpectedly low asking price should make you more careful with your purchase, but it is evidence of nothing. You need to ask the EA - by email, so you have a record - why it's valued as it is, and if necessary ask the vendor via your solicitor if they are aware of any significant work that's required in the block in the foreseeable future. They can either reply honestly, or not reply at all. Of course, that is simply no substitute for you carrying out a more involved survey on the flat; isn't it worth the opportunity? I mean, it's seemingly as few £k below market value, so what's an extra £500 for a comprehensive survey? I would specify that, as part of this survey, the surveyor sends a camera probe up via one of these downlighters and reports back on what's there. 

IF it turns out that the lowered ceiling is hiding a usable void, then - you know what? - I don't you even need to run this past the LL, as long as the lease makes the ceiling of 'your' flat your ownership/responsibility. I mean, if you suffered a leak from the flat above and this damaged your ceiling, then you'd simply have it repaired (probably claiming off your insurance, of course...). Or, if it turns out that this lowered ceiling is  covering up a rotten original plaster&lath ceiling that still remains above it, then you could even bring this to the seller's attention and ask for a further discount as your survey reports that it's likely that debris will continue to fall off the old ceiling and land on the new... That's your call. 

Two main ways that sound travels between properties - one is airborne and t'other by sound transmission through solid objects. Should you buy this flat and tackle the ceiling, the first is handled by sealing off any gaps along the ceiling above, such as around the perimeter.  Then you add a complete barrier of acoustic insulation material -  I've no idea what the best ones are, but the point is that they must be without gaps. For the second issue, the best way is to suspend a separate new ceiling below the original - which it what it seems you have - but this is more costly and also eats space. There must surely be shock-absorbing fittings that can be screwed in to existing joists from which to attach new ones, and provide nearly as good a level of sound insulation?

Anyhoo, if I were you I'd ask questions, and follow this up with a good survey including an examination of the void. From what you say, the flat is otherwise a good buy? 

scottishblondie

Norman_Castle said:

scottishblondie said:

  There was, however, nothing there to insulate against sound transmission - in fact the frame the plasterboard was on was suspended from the joists above.  

Our builder was pretty horrified by it.  Had it not been so ridiculously low we would have left it alone, but I'm now glad we went through the pain as it looks loads better and is now properly insulated.

What insulation did you use and has it made a difference to the amount of noise through the ceiling?

The builders put fibreglass fluff between the joists and boarded over that, then fixed up Kingspan which I think was 100mm.  Then there was a 50mm air gap, a new wooden frame which was only secured to our walls, and then plasterboard.  The room above is a spare bedroom so I'm unsure how the noise transmission has been affected yet, but I'm assured there will be a vast improvement.  The main difference I've noticed so far is that the room is much warmer - previously it was the coldest room in the house, but now even without a radiator in there it feels warm.  We did end up having the plaster walls strapped and boarded.  The plaster was unsound due to being applied over some very thick 70s yellow glossy kitchen paint, which is probably contributing a bit to the warmer feeling too.  The ceiling being higher has made an incredible difference to the feel of the room.