Hoping someone can point me toward specific parts of EU regs for returns

[Deleted User]

Geez, I wish I had money to burn - spending £300 on Chinese Ebay!

Mega_Maniac

Everyone - I realise these regulations do not legally cover me in any way, I realise that even if AliExpress say they will honour them on their site they can renege on this statement at their own pleasure.
As I said, I am no stranger to shopping on these places and I am quite aware of what I am asking for and the likely hood of this argument working with AliExpress or the seller. 

All of that said, I would like to attempt to make this argument. Everyones opinions on the likely hood of my success are completely irrelevant. I had hoped that members of this board might be able to direct me toward information I was seeking and very much specifically asked for, not advise me on something I have repeatedly said I am aware of and do not need advise on. Perhaps I should have limited the extent of my initial description. Either way, if anyone is actually able to direct me to the information I asked for, should it exist, I would most appreciate that. 

JJ_Egan

Try Google EU directives 

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=eu+directive+consumer+goods+and+associated+guarantees

Manxman_in_exile

Mega_Maniac said:

In the AE terms they state that their sellers must comply with the regulations within the countries they sell to. They specifically mention the 14 day right to return, but then also specifically say that the buyer must pay postage. This is true for items where the buyer simply changes their mind, but faulty or not as described goods must be returned at no cost to the buyer under the EU directive (that is my understanding).

Is perhaps the reason that you are getting what you see to be "irrelevant" answers because you are asking an "irrelevant" question?

If AE sellers "must comply with the regulations within the countries they sell to", why are you asking about EU directives when you should be asking about the relevant UK consumer legislation?  Yes - UK consumer legislation needs to put the appropriate EU directives into effect in the UK, but AIUI, UK legislation actually offers stronger and more extensive protection to consumers than that actually required by the EU.  So it makes no real sense to want to argue with AE (if that really is what you want to waste your time doing) about the EU position when you should be arguing with them about their obligations under UK law.

So are you sure it's the EU directive you really want to know about?

jon81uk

Its either the Consumer Rights Act 2015 or the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013

Mega_Maniac

Manxman_in_exile said:

Mega_Maniac said:

In the AE terms they state that their sellers must comply with the regulations within the countries they sell to. They specifically mention the 14 day right to return, but then also specifically say that the buyer must pay postage. This is true for items where the buyer simply changes their mind, but faulty or not as described goods must be returned at no cost to the buyer under the EU directive (that is my understanding).

Is perhaps the reason that you are getting what you see to be "irrelevant" answers because you are asking an "irrelevant" question?

If AE sellers "must comply with the regulations within the countries they sell to", why are you asking about EU directives when you should be asking about the relevant UK consumer legislation?  Yes - UK consumer legislation needs to put the appropriate EU directives into effect in the UK, but AIUI, UK legislation actually offers stronger and more extensive protection to consumers than that actually required by the EU.  So it makes no real sense to want to argue with AE (if that really is what you want to waste your time doing) about the EU position when you should be arguing with them about their obligations under UK law.

So are you sure it's the EU directive you really want to know about?

The question is a matter of fact one about wether there are specific parts of the EU legislation that pertain to who pays return postage when an incorrect or "not as described" item is received, as I have not been able to find these myself whilst searching for it. 
I am indeed aware that the UK legislation is stronger in many aspects than the EU one. My request for the EU legislation was because I not only expect AliE to be more responsive to legislation that covers the whole of the EU and which they specifically cite, but that it will also cover the UK as well.
In addition to this, references I had been able to find online to receiving items not as described all referenced the EU directive, without direct quotes. 
So yes, it is the EU legislation I wanted to ask about, because I did not think it would be such a complicated or contentious ask, but by all means - if the EU legislation contains no such information and the UK one does, then this would be what I need. But given I have looked through both and cannot find this information in either I had thought I perhaps was looking in the wrong place or at the wrong wording, but I am inclined to think it does not exist, or I am at least asking in the wrong place for any specific understanding of the directives that are not easily searchable or readily explained elsewhere. 

born_again

You need to step away from the Directives, as they have to be put into something the general public can understand. Plenty of consumer groups that have the info you need.

Problem you are dealing with a retailer who is not in the UK and in reality can stick 2 fingers up at them with impunity. AE are but the payment processer. Not the supplier at a guess. 
A quick google gives you a letter to send & your rights. On Which website.
https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-to-refuse-paying-the-cost-of-returning-a-faulty-item

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/i-want-to-return-something-bought-online

Manxman_in_exile

Mega_Maniac said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Mega_Maniac said:

In the AE terms they state that their sellers must comply with the regulations within the countries they sell to. They specifically mention the 14 day right to return, but then also specifically say that the buyer must pay postage. This is true for items where the buyer simply changes their mind, but faulty or not as described goods must be returned at no cost to the buyer under the EU directive (that is my understanding).

Is perhaps the reason that you are getting what you see to be "irrelevant" answers because you are asking an "irrelevant" question?

If AE sellers "must comply with the regulations within the countries they sell to", why are you asking about EU directives when you should be asking about the relevant UK consumer legislation?  Yes - UK consumer legislation needs to put the appropriate EU directives into effect in the UK, but AIUI, UK legislation actually offers stronger and more extensive protection to consumers than that actually required by the EU.  So it makes no real sense to want to argue with AE (if that really is what you want to waste your time doing) about the EU position when you should be arguing with them about their obligations under UK law.

So are you sure it's the EU directive you really want to know about?

The question is a matter of fact one about wether there are specific parts of the EU legislation that pertain to who pays return postage when an incorrect or "not as described" item is received, as I have not been able to find these myself whilst searching for it. 
I am indeed aware that the UK legislation is stronger in many aspects than the EU one. My request for the EU legislation was because I not only expect AliE to be more responsive to legislation that covers the whole of the EU and which they specifically cite, but that it will also cover the UK as well.
In addition to this, references I had been able to find online to receiving items not as described all referenced the EU directive, without direct quotes. 
So yes, it is the EU legislation I wanted to ask about, because I did not think it would be such a complicated or contentious ask, but by all means - if the EU legislation contains no such information and the UK one does, then this would be what I need. But given I have looked through both and cannot find this information in either I had thought I perhaps was looking in the wrong place or at the wrong wording, but I am inclined to think it does not exist, or I am at least asking in the wrong place for any specific understanding of the directives that are not easily searchable or readily explained elsewhere. 

But EU directives are not legislation and are not "in force" in the UK or anywhere else.  Member state governments enact domestic legislation to put EU directives into effect in their own countries.

If you want to waste your time arguing with AE by all means do so, but if you want it to have any purpose or even "educate" them, then surely it makes sense to argue on correct grounds rather than incorrect ones?  (FWIW I'm sure the individuals and corporate bodies in China or whereever who are behind AE are well aware of the difference between EU directives and domestic legislation and know exactly what they are doing.  And they won't care what you think).

EDIT:  I am by no means an expert on consumer rights but it's taken me just ten minutes to find s.20(8) of the Consumer Rights Act 2015:  "Whether or not the consumer has a duty to return the rejected goods, the trader must bear any reasonable costs of returning them, other than any costs incurred by the consumer in returning the goods in person to the place where the consumer took physical possession of them."  Now that relates specifically to the Right to Reject which I presume covers your question, but if I were you I'd read around more of that Act.

If I'm wrong I'm sure someone (hopefully unholyangel as she does know what she's talking about) will correct me.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/contents/enacted

Forget looking for EU directives and don't expect AE to take any notice of you.

EDIT2:  In fact I've just noticed that Aylesbury_duck linked to s.20(8) this morning on the e-scooter thread.  But I found it myself, independently - honest...

Mega_Maniac

born_again - thanks but as I want to point out the specifics of the legislation I do not think the pre-formatted letter from Which would help, that said you pointed me toward the CRA 2015 earlier, which Manxman does again directly above, and whilst I was convinced I had searched this for the information in this legislation I can now see that I either missed it or did not in fact check the document as I thought I had.

Anyway - the info I was looking for in case it ever helps anyone else:

23 Right to repair or replacement

• (1)This section applies if the consumer has the right to repair or replacement (see section 19(3) and (4)).

19 Consumer’s rights to enforce terms about goods
...

• (3)If the goods do not conform to the contract because of a breach of any of the terms described in sections 9, 10, 11, 13 and 1...

11 Goods to be as described

• (1)Every contract to supply goods by description is to be treated as including a term that the goods will match the description.

• (2)If the consumer requires the trader to repair or replace the goods, the trader must—

• (a)do so within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer, and

• (b)bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

mattyprice4004

I wish you the best of luck, but my experience with Aliexpress is that you'll be fobbed off and get nowhere.