Current Accounts - Power of Attorney and security arrangements - recommendations please

HJandR

Hi I have POA for my mum, who still has capacity but struggles with technology.  We both bank with First Direct, and I live hundreds of miles from her.  My mum likes to feel in control of her money and keeps a close eye on her account, she preferred to do this by logging into the FD website, and although she does not use computers for any other purpose she had trained herself how to do this.  Providing she followed the steps in the right order, she was ok.  Unfortunately since the introduction of additional security - a keypad code generator, she has really struggled and is increasingly confused by frequent changes on the website when she has to provide additional codes and approvals etc..  FD arrangements around POA are that we can both manage the account by phone, but only one of us is allowed internet access, and if I take the internet access then she will lose all banking access (as they deem her unable to manage her affairs) so she will no longer have any access to view her accounts by either phone or internet - which would not be appropriate, as she is mentally very able and would be very upset to lose this access.

The long and the short of it is that as a result of this, I am considering finding another suitable account for my mum but I am aware that many other banks will have similar arrangements in relation to the keypad codes and extra permissions, or may fairly inevitably move this way in the future so my question is 2 fold.  1 - can anybody recommend a current account that can be managed via a  fairly simple website without additional keypad or code generators ? *(she also does not use a mobile phone or tablet so would not be happy with an app).  2 - does anybody have experience of POA arrangements, and as such, recommend a bank that would allow both parties internet access ?

I should also mention that my mums account is a joint account with my dad, but in name only - and he does not access the account at all and has not set up security, as I had considered a joint account for me and my mum to deal with the problem, but will not work with 3 parties (usually).

Any recommendations would be much appreciated. 

jonesMUFCforever

Lloyds bank group does not require a card reader for personal accounts and I think the attorney can have Internet access.

Eco_Miser

Lloyds bank group also don't require their customers to have a mobile phone, unlike many who send a One Time Pass by text. Instead, when 2 Factor Authorisation is required, a bot phones the landline and asks for the numbers displayed on the computer screen.

HobgoblinBT

What about changing the account to a joint account as well as registering the Power of

Attorney with first direct?  That way, your mum can have access to the account and you can have oversight/access as appropriate.  

If the money in the account is only provided by or belongs to your mother, in the event of her death, any money in the account belongs to her estate for probate purposes, but you still retain access to the account.  

I have a similar situation with my father and I having a joint account for some of his money. He is not comfortable with internet shopping so any non grocery shopping he needs, I buy remotely for him on the joint account debit card and Amazon deliver directly to him.

Zanderman

HobgoblinBT said:

What about changing the account to a joint account as well as registering the Power of

Attorney with first direct?  That way, your mum can have access to the account and you can have oversight/access as appropriate.  

If the money in the account is only provided by or belongs to your mother, in the event of her death, any money in the account belongs to her estate for probate purposes, but you still retain access to the account.  

I have a similar situation with my father and I having a joint account for some of his money. He is not comfortable with internet shopping so any non grocery shopping he needs, I buy remotely for him on the joint account debit card and Amazon deliver directly to him.

Money in a joint account belongs to both parties.  In the effort of a death it passes to the other party, not to the estate.

HobgoblinBT

SeeZanderman said:

HobgoblinBT said:

What about changing the account to a joint account as well as registering the Power of

Attorney with first direct?  That way, your mum can have access to the account and you can have oversight/access as appropriate.  

If the money in the account is only provided by or belongs to your mother, in the event of her death, any money in the account belongs to her estate for probate purposes, but you still retain access to the account.  

I have a similar situation with my father and I having a joint account for some of his money. He is not comfortable with internet shopping so any non grocery shopping he needs, I buy remotely for him on the joint account debit card and Amazon deliver directly to him.

Money in a joint account belongs to both parties.  In the effort of a death it passes to the other party, not to the estate

Not quite.  The Bank will change the account to the sole name of the survivor, but if all of the money has been placed in the account by the deceased party to the account, the funds form part of the estate of the deceased estate.  See  Whitlock vs Moree.  

HobgoblinBT

Also, see the link below from the London Gazette.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/content/103479

Zanderman

HobgoblinBT said:

Not quite.  The Bank will change the account to the sole name of the survivor, but if all of the money has been placed in the account by the deceased party to the account, the funds form part of the estate of the deceased estate.  See  Whitlock vs Moree.  

HobgoblinBT said:

Also, see the link below from the London Gazette.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/wills-and-probate/content/103479

But that requires the two account holders to formally agree this in writing - in a legally acceptable way - beforehand. 

So your earlier statement saying

If the money in the account is only provided by or belongs to your mother, in the event of her death, any money in the account belongs to her estate for probate purposes, but you still retain access to the account.  

is, in general terms, incorrect.

In general terms, without formal and known prior agreement, any money in a joint account passes to the surviving account holder when the other dies.  

As is made clear in the London Gazette link you provided.  Which says:

Does the joint owner of a bank account automatically receive the funds when the other owner dies?

In the UK, bank and building society accounts are generally held by the joint account holders as ‘joint tenants’, so that on the death of one account holder the funds in the account pass to the surviving account holder by the principle of survivorship.

This happens automatically, regardless of the terms of the deceased person’s will or the rules of intestacy and there is usually no need to obtain a grant of probate in order to transfer the funds. The surviving account holder can simply provide the bank or building society with the deceased joint account holder’s death certificate and the account will be transferred into the survivor’s name.

So it is not sufficient to advise the OP to simply open a joint account.  
You should add that, if doing that, additional measures would be needed, otherwise the money would be lost to the estate.