Water pressure loss - ideal logic combi1 35

jarvis92

Hi jeepers, 
thank you for all the information. I will go and check my pipes again. I have also heard that it could be a fault with the membrane or the expansion vessel? Is there any sense in this? 

I have checked around the house - there is no patches of water anywhere. I’ll do a thorough check again. I thought NHBC was only for the building and not the pipes and other things, am I wrong? That’s exactly my thought - considering it’s only 3 years old - I am failing to understand where this leak can be. 

The boiler is a ideal logic espi1 35. 

Jeepers_Creepers said:

jarvis92 said:

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Hi Jarvis.

Your boiler will almost certainly have a 15mm copper pipe coming out from under it which heads out through an external wall. On the outside, it'll either be pointing down close to the ground, or else be curved back on itself and facing the wall. This is the safety discharge pipe - can you locate it?

If all is well, there should be nothing coming out that pipe. Touch the end with your finger to see if there's any wetness - is there? If in any doubt, get a small clear plastic bag and loosely tape/rubber-band it around the end so it'll catch any water that does come out.

If the leak is within the boiler, then that's the most likely way it exits your system, and this would be good news as it's easily sortable. 

The other way water can leave your boiler is via the plastic condensate pipe - you should be able to locate this too. It'll be trickier to determine if the leak is coming out here as 'water' is released from this at regular intervals in any case. Really, the the only way would be to pressurise your boiler and then leave it off for a week - see if anything comes out there when it's not actually working...! With modern boilers, this would be an unlikely source anyway, as they've kind of sorted the early 'high efficiency' boiler issues of corroding main exchangers. So I doubt it's via this anyway.

Failing that, it's sadly a case of 'hunt the leak'. Does your house have a foundation void under the floor? Can anyone get in there to check the pipes? I have heard of other ways of tracing leaks - but not sure how - so you could try a G-search for this. 

Hi Jeepers,

thank you for your response. I have located the pipe and checked it earlier on today. There is nothing on the pipe, or on the floor near it. I poked my finger inside the pipe and it’s dry, I got some dust on my fingers that’s about it. 

A plastic condensate pipe - is that what it’s called? Where about would this be? 

There is no foundation void under the floor, I would have to rip into the flooring which is what i am worried on. A G-search? Is that a service a company would provide? 

Thanks.

Cool - the dry and dusty pipe is pretty conclusive! 

The condensate pipe should also be obvious as it'll be the only 22mm plastic one coming from under the boiler. It'll either head out through the house wall and end up in a drain, or it could be connected to a waste drain inside the house. 

It would be unusual for a 3-year old boiler to leak 'system' water (which is the boiler/radiator water sealed under pressure in your system) this way, tho', as it would only occur if the main exchanger had suffered a crack or corrosion - rare these days. (Some early HE boilers had aluminium or copper exchangers in them and these unsurprisingly corroded with the acidic condensate!)

The only other way for the boiler to leak would be visibly from underneath. 

It's hard to judge just how much water is concerned here, but I'd very roughly estimate that a drop of pressure of 0.3 bar (your last figure) would require something like a cupful? When you re-top the pressure, you'll have an idea by the sound of the flow for however many seconds it takes. So we are not talking about a 'flood', but we are certainly talking about an amount that will be noticeable when found... For pipes buried in concrete floors, I'd expect a damp patch to reveal themselves, especially as the system has been topped up repeatedly. But of course this would require the floor coverings to be lifted first.

Sorry - by G-search I mean 'Google'! I've heard of companies that can use - I dunno - infra-red imaging? to try and locate leaks? Perhaps by detecting the 'warm patch'.

Your boiler warranty might only have been for 2 years, but surely your 'system' - the rads and pipes - have more than this? Isn't there an NHBC warranty or similar? Should it turn out that the fault is with the boiler, I would suggest that this is most definitely still protected too; a modern boiler should not - would not - fail in 3 years unless it had an inherent fault.

Jeepers_Creepers

I've had a quick look at NHBC and what it covers. Looks pretty woolly to me. If I were you, tho', I'd get the name of the CH installer and would consider them to be liable directly. I mean, if you had commissioned this installation yourself for your home and it started to leak after 3 years, you would surely expect some comeback?

Anyhoo, the condensate pipe comes out from the middle of the bottom of this boiler, and it'll head off sloping downwards at all times - it would go 'up'! As I said, tho', you'll only know if it's a leak via this if the boiler is fully shut down and cold for a few days...

A ruptured diaphragm in the Expansion Vessel can take in a bit of the system water, but not continually. This 'vessel' is inside the boiler casing and has a rubber diaphragm in its middle. On one side is the system water and on the other is pressurised air. It 'takes in' excess water from expansion when your boiler heats up - and this compresses the air side even more - and then releases it back when your system cools down again. If the diaphragm ruptures - which can happen, but usually only in oldish boilers - then the air escapes out and usually requires you to have to bleed your rads. The biggest symptom, tho', is that your system pressure will start to soar when your boiler heats up - yours doesn't do this? 

The folk who actually installed your system would be the ones to chase for help, I think. They should know where the pipes are run and how, and also where 'weak points' could be like manifolds and other major joints. 

jarvis92

Thank you very much - I will call them up and see what they say. I appreciate all the help you have given me. 

AskAsk

can be difficult to identify where the leak is in the system.  may be worth insuring with british gas and let them sort it out.

jarvis92

AskAsk said:

can be difficult to identify where the leak is in the system.  may be worth insuring with british gas and let them sort it out.

Too many negative reviews on British Gas. SSE or EDF look better.