Water Leak

mcphail

Hello,  just wanted to see if anyone had any advice for the situation that we are in.  
A few weeks ago, the flat upstairs to us had a leak, which came down to our flat.  They sorted it, but we were still getting water water coming in, and it was running down to the flat downstairs too. We had to get our plumber in, and it was discovered that the leak was coming from the join on the communal pipe to the pipe that went to our hot water tank.  It was just coincidence that the leak upstairs happened at the same time!!! ( I did wonder if they had done something to the pipe when they were fixing it, and had moved it, causing the movement in our  join, but knowing nothing about it, I dont know if that is possible?)  Anyway, we have accepted that as it was at our join, then it should be our responsibility for all costs - but our plumber has suggested that since it was from a communal pipe, then it could be argued it would be a shared cost.  Is this worth taking further, or are we wasting our time?  Appreciate any feedback, and thank you.

HampshireH

How much did it cost to seal the join?

Is it worth it....

mcphail

It costs £750, as it took nearly a day to do it, and had to get other people in to help too.  It was a big problem!  Also, we will have to pay for the repairs to downstairs flat, which we would hope to do without involving the insurance, as excess is £750. The insurance won’t pay the £750 plumber job, they will only pay repairs.

greatcrested

1) if the damage was to a communal pipe, then the freeholder is responsible, not you. The cost will go onto the annual service charges of all leaseholders (unless the freeholder claims on insurance)

2) even if the damage was your pipe, you are not liable for the costs of damage to the flat below unless you were 'negligent'. ie you knew of the leak but did nothing about it, or knew the leak was likely to occur but did nothing to prevent it occuring

davidmcn

Given that I see you have previously posted about Scottish properties, which country is this one in? If Scotland then no freeholder/leaseholder set-up, but communal pipes etc are (almost certainly) owned jointly by all the flats. Same principle though, the cost ought to be split among the owners either through the factors or however you deal with common costs.

mcphail

greatcrested said:

1) if the damage was to a communal pipe, then the freeholder is responsible, not you. The cost will go onto the annual service charges of all leaseholders (unless the freeholder claims on insurance)

2) even if the damage was your pipe, you are not liable for the costs of damage to the flat below unless you were 'negligent'. ie you knew of the leak but did nothing about it, or knew the leak was likely to occur but did nothing to prevent it occuring

That’s interesting!  Thank you for your advice.  I was just not sure, as the leak was at the join between the communal pipe and our pipe.  I will look into this further now, but feel I will have a battle on my hands with the other owners. Can I just check this is still the case if the property is in Scotland? Thanks 

Jeepers_Creepers

McPhail, before you end up with a whopping bill for something you are not liable for, re-read GreatCrested's post above 5 times. :-)
Your plumber is right.

This is a leasehold flat? Do all the flats own the freehold or is there a separate freeholder? I presume you pay BUILDING's insurance to the Freeholder, and then you all have your own contents insurance? That's the usual setup.

In which case, the building's insurance covers the actual fault repair - the leak - and each flat then takes responsibility (via their contents insurance) for making good any damage inside their own flats. Communal areas are handled communally. 

(On a separate issue, is it possible that the plumbing work carried out on the flat above disturbed the other pipe causing the second leak? Yes, it's possible, and if the plumber was negligent in this way he would be liable (unless that second joint was dodgy and weak - ie the plumber had no control over what happened), and would have to claim off his own liability insurance. But good luck going that route - the chances of proving it, even if it were the case, is remote.) 

greatcrested

mcphail said:

greatcrested said:

1) if the damage was to a communal pipe, then the freeholder is responsible, not you. The cost will go onto the annual service charges of all leaseholders (unless the freeholder claims on insurance)

2) even if the damage was your pipe, you are not liable for the costs of damage to the flat below unless you were 'negligent'. ie you knew of the leak but did nothing about it, or knew the leak was likely to occur but did nothing to prevent it occuring

..... Can I just check this is still the case if the property is in Scotland? Thanks 

I cannot comment on Scotland. Sorry.

mcphail

davidmcn said:

Given that I see you have previously posted about Scottish properties, which country is this one in? If Scotland then no freeholder/leaseholder set-up, but communal pipes etc are (almost certainly) owned jointly by all the flats. Same principle though, the cost ought to be split among the owners either through the factors or however you deal with common costs.

Thank you very much davidmcn - yes, the property is in Scotland, and everyone owns their own flat.  We sort out the communal bills between ourselves, but in this instance, it would of probably been better that we had a factor to deal with it.  Thanks again for your comments.

anselld

£750 for one pipe joint, that is steep!  That has to be at least a full day labour for three people.

mcphail

anselld said:

£750 for one pipe joint, that is steep!  That has to be at least a full day labour for three people.

Yes, it was exactly that.  It wasn’t a straight forward job, as there were complications- old tenement flat with old pipes.  I am not querying the bill I know they were there all day, and had a nightmare job getting it sorted!