Misled by David Lloyd employee about contract terms, now being referred to debt collection agency.

hshhicke

Hi everyone,

I have an ongoing dispute with David Lloyd that I need your advice on please. I have pasted the entire correspondence trail below which explains my issue and their responses. After the first email, I cancelled my direct debit not thinking there would be a problem, and have since been chased daily with automated voicemail messages for outstanding payment. Today I've received a letter stating they will refer me to their debt collection agency and charge an additional £75 admin fee. 

I sent my initial cancellation notice on the 26th of August so it's been over two months with very little response from them. At this point, I just want to see the back of this and would just pay the 3 months' fees if someone could actually acknowledge, in writing, cancellation of my membership on 26th November. I did call the club today but was unable to speak to anyone who could action this, so I'm loath to do that until then. However, I don't fancy having to pay an additional £75 while waiting for them to respond to me. As you'll see below, it's all been incredibly slow on their end. 

Not sure if it's relevant or not, but I've not visited the club since it reopened. 

Thanks in advance for your help!

sun-n-moon

Myself and others have had the same issues with Total Fitness. They refuse to let you leave. I've found the best solution is to just ignore them and their threats. They go away eventually. It will not go further. They know they would lose any legal action.

pelirocco

sun-n-moon said:

Myself and others have had the same issues with Total Fitness. They refuse to let you leave. I've found the best solution is to just ignore them and their threats. They go away eventually. It will not go further. They know they would lose any legal action.

Why would they lose , it is clearly stated in their terms and conditions 

qzr

When David Lloyd closed in March they effectively ended the contracts between their members and themselves. They were (admittedly through no fault of their own) unable to fulfil the contracts so they ended! This is the Law Reform(Frustrated Contracts) Act 1943, the aim of which is to protect parties to a contract where the other party fails to fulfil. If David Lloyd are threatening that 3 months notice must be given advise them that you will sue in the small claims court to recover any sums taken from your account without your permission. You cannot be made to give notice as the contract was ended by them. The small claims process is very simple and you can claim for your court costs and for interest on your money. David Lloyd clubs are well aware of this they are just trying to frighten people into paying!

[Deleted User]

Don't believe the random interpretations of a new poster who has essentially copy/pasted the same answer on two threads about this gym chain, based on a slightly strange reading of a ~80 year old law that doesn't have any allowance for situations like covid. Don't follow the advice to just ignore debt letters
OP - whatever you may have been told, you can't prove that conversation happened as you remember it and you signed the Ts & Cs which stated the opposite of what you were told which is what the firm will rely on. The fact they have pushed this through to debt collectors means this is not going away, you do not want a CCJ on your record...

seatbeltnoob

Deleted_User said:

Don't believe the random interpretations of a new poster who has essentially copy/pasted the same answer on two threads about this gym chain, based on a slightly strange reading of a ~80 year old law that doesn't have any allowance for situations like covid. Don't follow the advice to just ignore debt letters
OP - whatever you may have been told, you can't prove that conversation happened as you remember it and you signed the Ts & Cs which stated the opposite of what you were told which is what the firm will rely on. The fact they have pushed this through to debt collectors means this is not going away, you do not want a CCJ on your record...

the law on contract frustration is still valid and has not been superseded by a different law, this advice has been give by barristors on legal hour on lbc. what is your legal qualification to say that the frustrated contracts acts is not longer valid?

qzr

When David Lloyd closed in March legally they ended the contracts with ALL members under the Law Reform (Frustrated Contracts) Act 1943. If you have been unable or unwilling to go back to David Lloyd and have cancelled membership they legally cannot ask you to pay for 3 months notice as the contract was ended by them back in March. I sued them in the small claims court, a very simple process, and not only didn't pay the 3 months they were insisting I should pay I also got a refund for the days they closed in March plus legal costs and interest. They are threatening members and instructing debt collectors in an attempt to scare members into paying. If you have paid them for 3 months notice SUE TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK( with costs and interest), if you are being threatened to pay sue for the money paid for the time they closed in March, although this is only a small sum you can add interest, they will have to pay your costs and it will stop them chasing you for the. three months notice. Despite what some forum members have posted the "80 year old law" hasn't  been repealed and until it is still applies where a contract has been "frustrated" ie where you have paid and the other party hasn't provided what you paid for, whatever the reason. 

[Deleted User]

seatbeltnoob said:

Deleted_User said:

Don't believe the random interpretations of a new poster who has essentially copy/pasted the same answer on two threads about this gym chain, based on a slightly strange reading of a ~80 year old law that doesn't have any allowance for situations like covid. Don't follow the advice to just ignore debt letters
OP - whatever you may have been told, you can't prove that conversation happened as you remember it and you signed the Ts & Cs which stated the opposite of what you were told which is what the firm will rely on. The fact they have pushed this through to debt collectors means this is not going away, you do not want a CCJ on your record...

the law on contract frustration is still valid and has not been superseded by a different law, this advice has been give by barristors on legal hour on lbc. what is your legal qualification to say that the frustrated contracts acts is not longer valid?

I didn't say it wasn't valid, though feel free to point out in that quote where it says that (hint: you might be waiting a long time to find it)
What I actually said was that you shouldn't just believe (or take at face value if you like) the random interpretations of a new poster who joined on the 28th October specifically to post on 2 David Lloyd threads to tell people to use that law . Burden of proof is on the accuser, I am not making the claim that you can use a 1943 law to get out of paying a debt, nor would any of the posters be able to rely on this post to prove their case, nor would "qzr" cover the debts and any associated costs
Any attempt to use laws you don't understand or lacking precedents in UK case law is a risk. In this scenario, we are not talking about them not being willing to fulfill their contractual obligations, but rather, not being able to because, BY LAW, they were forced by the government to close i.e. they didn't frustrate the contract, the contract was frustrated by the covid situation, thus the law may not be applied in the same way by the courts.
The reason I replied is people who join forums and jump on threads anonymously telling you to use xyz old law is very similar to the "freeman of the land" types who try and argue they don't have a "real name" or that they aren't driving their car but rather, are travelling, therefore driving laws don't apply to them.
It's possible that this approach will work, but I remain skeptical that the covid situation wouldn't be taken into account in any attempt to argue this was contract frustration on behalf of David Lloyd when they had no choice.

seatbeltnoob

Deleted_User said:

 BY LAW, they were forced by the government to close i.e. they didn't frustrate the contract, the contract was frustrated by the covid situation, thus the law may not be applied in the same way by the courts.

You didn't answer my question. you are challenging a legal opinion, so can I ask you what makes you legally qualified to come up with a convoluted opinion?

I'm not legally trained, but I can see some serious conceptual issues with your arguement. How can someone frustrate their own contract? You dont frustrate your own contract, you break your own contract. Earlier you said something about how an 80 year old law cant make allowances for situations like covid. I don't think you fully understand what frustration means, it is precisely crafted for situations like national lockdowns imposed by government. It protects parties during war, famine, national emergencies and other "completely unforseen" circumstances.

Source: https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/guides/english-contracts-frustration-coronavirus

Frustration will occur when:

• an unforeseen event occurs after a contract is entered into which is outside the control of the parties, and makes the contract either:
• physically or commercially impossible or illegal to perform; or
• transforms performance of the contract into something so radically different from the intended purpose that it would be unfair to hold the parties to their obligations.

I heard it myself from a barrister on lbc. The lockdown meant that it will illegal for gyms to be open, gyms can't be open and provide the services they are contracted to supply. The contract length is usually 12 months, so the gym has to refund or not take payment for the duration which gyms were prohibited from opening. Some gyms were pulling a fast one and freezing the contract and resuming the contract with the remaining time shifted from the start of lockdown to end of lockdown. These amounts to an extension of the contract that gym goer did not agree to. One party cannot extend the contract to make up for the "frustrated period".

Unless you can tell me you're a barrister and this is all wrong, I suggest you stop throwing accusations.
I can't articulate how hilarious it is that you are attacking someone about contract frustration when you clearly dont grasp the concept.

seatbeltnoob

Now I don't agree with the idea that a 3 month lockdown can make a 12 month contract null and void. You'd have to have a steely nerve to argue that. I do feel that the contract is frustrated only during the 3 month period that the lockdown was in place for.

qzr

I note that "farfetch" has commented on my post re David Lloyd as "random interpretations of a new poster". I apologise for being a new poster, we all have to start somewhere and no doubt 394 posts ago farfetch did just that. My posts were an attempt to help people having difficulties with David Lloyd as I am aware of them pursuing people who have lost their jobs and can't afford the 3 months notice they are insisting on. If farfetch had read all my post they would have seen that far from being any sort of "interpretation" it was a factual report that I had taken David Lloyd to court and had received judgement. I got a full refund of all membership fees paid(including the period in March when they were closed and had point blank refused any monetary refund) pus interest at 8% for the time they kept my money and my court costs. I am a new poster and will only post when I have something I feel I can add,I do have a life and I won't be making hundreds of comments on matters I misunderstand which make me look foolish!