Cold house/condensation

carolinevw

Hi all, 

I wonder whether anyone might be able to give me a bit of advice because I'm reaching the end of my tether. We live in an oldish property that unfortunately doesn't have cavity walls. The property tends to get incredibly cold. It warms up lovely when the heating is on (except the bedrooms which never warm) but within about an hour of it going off it's gone really cold again and even now although it's not that cold outside the bedrooms drop to between 12c and 15C overnight. if I could afford to leave the heating on all the time I would but unfortunately it's very expensive ! We also get terrible condensation in these bedrooms. Every morning the windows are completely covered in condensation and I'm having to use my VAX to clean them down. 

We did have an issue with mould in the master bedroom although we did get that bedroom decorated last year and had some insulated wallpaper put on so will see whether that's made a difference this year. We are not getting quite as much condensation in that bedroom as what we did before and certainly not as much as the other bedrooms. 

I'm just at a bit of a loss really as to how to deal with the condensation and also how to deal with the fact the property is so cold. I've tried opening the windows during the day close and internal doors opening the door when cooking but nothing seems to making a difference in terms of the condensation. 

Please could somebody help me because I'm beginning to lose the plot with it all through worry! I have a five month old baby so I'm just terrified of her getting cold!

Thank you 

Doozergirl

Do you have loft insulation?  I don't have any cavity wall insulation either and yes, it will lose heat fairly quickly, but loft Insulation is by far the most effective as that is where most heat is lost from and that is what made a massive difference to our house.  It isn't suitable for cavity wall insulation.  

Do you have a thermostat maintaining the temperature for you? 

What type of radiators do you have and do they they get adequately warm throughout?  

Condensation is linked to cold walls but is also linked to inadequate ventilation.  Are your windows double glazed?  Do they have trickle vents to allow a small amount of air through?   Do you have good extractors in the kitchen and bathrooms?  

carolinevw

We do have some loft insulation although I'm not quite sure of the quality of it. 

We don't have a thermostat maintaining the temperature. Although the radiators do get hot they come on a timer so they come on about 6.30 at night and go off at 9pm and that's it until the next night. 

We do have double glazing throughout although we don't have any trickle vents, we also don't have fans in either the kitchen or bathroom. When cooking I just tend to open the kitchen door to let some air circulate

Thank you 

grumbler

Doozergirl said:

Do you have loft insulation?  I don't have any cavity wall insulation either and yes, it will lose heat fairly quickly, but loft Insulation is by far the most effective as that is where most heat is lost from and that is what made a massive difference to our house.  It isn't suitable for cavity wall insulation. 

My friend in a similar house started with significantly improving the loft insulation, but still ended up with adding buttons and insulated plasterboard (with 5cm of insulation) inside the bedroom. The same is going to happen with the bathroom (both are north-facing). No problems with the ground floor because of the modern extension.

Alternatively it can be extra insulation outside. Insulated wallpaper is, IMO, a gimmick, waste of money and effort.

Condensation is linked to cold walls but is also linked to inadequate ventilation.  Are your windows double glazed?  Do they have trickle vents to allow a small amount of air through?   Do you have good extractors in the kitchen and bathrooms? 

+

Do you dry washing inside?

Do you have a gas hob? Burning gas produces a tot of H2O.

Doozergirl

carolinevw said:

We do have some loft insulation although I'm not quite sure of the quality of it. 

We don't have a thermostat maintaining the temperature. Although the radiators do get hot they come on a timer so they come on about 6.30 at night and go off at 9pm and that's it until the next night. 

We do have double glazing throughout although we don't have any trickle vents, we also don't have fans in either the kitchen or bathroom. When cooking I just tend to open the kitchen door to let some air circulate

Thank you 

Can you guess my answers? 

Your loft insulation should be 300mm deep.  

You need a thermostat.  This is the main part of your problem - you cannot regulate the temperature.  It's a false economy not to have one.  

You can get trickle vents retrofitted and it's absolutely essential that you have an extractor fan in both kitchen and bathroom.  The bathroom one should be humidity to be properly helpful, but anything is better than nothing.  

The kitchen one should extract to outside to be useful, but the measures above are most important.  

The good news is that we know why you have issues! 

Mickey666

carolinevw said:

We do have some loft insulation although I'm not quite sure of the quality of it. 

We don't have a thermostat maintaining the temperature. Although the radiators do get hot they come on a timer so they come on about 6.30 at night and go off at 9pm and that's it until the next night. 

We do have double glazing throughout although we don't have any trickle vents, we also don't have fans in either the kitchen or bathroom. When cooking I just tend to open the kitchen door to let some air circulate

Thank you 

Ventilation is the key to condensation control and a healthy indoor environment in general.  The recommendation for maintaining a healthy indoor environment is to change the air about three to four times per hour, even more for 'wet' rooms such as bathrooms or kitchens.  That's a complete change of air every 15 minutes!  Unfortunately, heating and then changing that air costs money so the inclination is to seal up the house as tight as possible to save money, with all the associated problems that can bring.

You can sort of demonstrate this easily with a rubber glove.  Feel the skin on your hand.  It will feel dry because the constant moisture it generates can freely escape, ie it is well-ventilated.  Now put on a rubber glove.  Within 5-10 minutes the skin will become damp and 'clammy' simply because the ventilation around it has been eliminated, the moisture is trapped and so begins to build up.  Remove the glove, the skin moisture will dissipate and become dry to the touch very quickly. 

Petriix

Your main problem is the poor insulation. Ideally you would add external wall insulation as that's where most heat tends to be lost (assuming that there's already some loft insulation). However it's quite an expensive job so usually only economical when grant funded.

There is a grant scheme supposedly running at the moment, but people are having real difficulties trying to get quotes from the tiny handful of companies accredited for the scheme; and those that do come back are vastly inflated.

Then, like others have said, reduce the amount of water you let into the house. Ventilate the kitchen and bathroom to the outside, not to the rest of the house. And adjust the heating to heat the rooms you need when you need it so maybe turn downstairs radiators off and heat the bedrooms a little overnight.

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Caroline.

Everything said above.

Would you like your bedroom to be dry in the morning without even adding anything? You can. You won't like the idea, but it'll work... And worth doing just to prove a point. When you go to bed, crack open the windows to allow a through flow of air. That's it. 

Ok, your nose will be cold, but the rest of you will be under the duvet so hopefully warm. 

The cause of your problem is largely down to the warm air in your house - which will be holding a LOT of moisture in it - suddenly dropping in temp when your heating goes off, which means it can no longer hold on to that moisture, and this then condenses out on the coldest surfaces it can find - your bedroom walls and windows. To sort this you either have to keep the room warm - so it keeps holding on to that moisture (far too expensive) - or you need to ventilate that moisture away.

I would keep the bedroom doors open during the days and evenings (and their windows closed) as this helps to ventilate them via the house, and also allows some heat in there, so it isn't too cold when you go to bed. However, crack open the windows - even leave the door ajar - as soon as you retire to vent away that moisture. However, you should also be taking steps to extract all heavy sources of moisture as well - fit a cooker extractor, extract from bathrooms showers etc. 

Just try that as an experiment for one night - do everything as before, but open the bedroom windows to 'vent' before going under the sheets.

Obviously, adding insulation is the best solution... 

FreeBear

Petriix said: Your main problem is the poor insulation. Ideally you would add external wall insulation as that's where most heat tends to be lost (assuming that there's already some loft insulation). However it's quite an expensive job so usually only economical when grant funded.

With an old property with solid brick/stone walls, it is crucial that the right materials are used and attention is paid to the detailing. Failure to do so could (will) cause damp to be trapped in the walls which will do little to improve the warmth of the place - A damp wall is a cold wall. Depending on the age of the property and location, it may be listed, or sited in a conservation area which would cause problems fitting EWI.

Putting battens on the inside followed by 50-60mm of Celotex/Kingspan type insulation would retain the external appearance of the property and may be easier to get approval for if listed or in a conservation area. If one is going through the upheaval & mess of internal wall insulation, it would make sense to look at insulating the floors at the same time. If you are insulating more than 25% of the walls, building regs kick in, so you might need to go for 75mm of insulation (up to you if you involve Building Control).

Is it worth insulating internally - Heck, yes. Done a small room here after taking the plaster back to brick and removing the ceiling. Lost 60-70mm of floor space in the process, but can now maintain the temperature in there at a comfortable level with no noticeable increase in heating costs. No more damp walls and condensation on the windows. Added bonus, I now have nice smooth and flat walls.

For the OP, my first piece of advice would be to invest in a decent heating control system, something with a bit of "smarts" built in so that you can regulate the temperature during the course of the day. It need not be hugely expensive. If you have an old gravity system, it would be worth having a look at the Drayton Wiser system (some of the reviews aren't brilliant though). For under £200 (plus fitting), you could save that much on fuel in a year - I had been using a dumb timer+thermostat system for a long while and only having the heating on for a few hours each day. Switched to a smart system ~18 months ago, and now have heating on 24/7 for the same cost after tuning the time/temperature to suit my needs.

RelievedSheff

carolinevw said:

We do have some loft insulation although I'm not quite sure of the quality of it. 

We don't have a thermostat maintaining the temperature. Although the radiators do get hot they come on a timer so they come on about 6.30 at night and go off at 9pm and that's it until the next night. 

We do have double glazing throughout although we don't have any trickle vents, we also don't have fans in either the kitchen or bathroom. When cooking I just tend to open the kitchen door to let some air circulate

Thank you 

You are really not heating your house for very long at all. It will never get fully warm with just 2.5 hours of heating a day. It takes a long time for the whole fabric of a building to heat through properly. Not letting the building heat through and dry out could well lead to damp issues within the structure of the building.

You need to sort out your heating controls so that you have a thermostat as well as a timer so that you are not wasting heat. Your boiler will be working flat out to try and heat a very cold building which is not an economical way for it to be running. You may well find that by putting the heating on for longer it will warm the building properly and won't actually cost that much more to run as the boiler will throttle back rather then running flat out.

As others have pointed out you need to ventilate the rooms better to get rid of the moist air. Get some trickle vents fitted to your existing windows.

Also get an external extractor hood fitted to your kitchen of possible and extractors to your bathroom to help reduce moisture escaping from these rooms into the house. Don't hang washing around the house to dry, pick a room and leave it in that room, ideally a room with an extractor fan to pull away the moist air.