EDF want to change meter

I have received an email from my supplier EDF saying my meter needs replacing. They are urging me to book a time. I have lived where I am for five years, I have Economy 7 as only Storage Heaters for heating and electric for cooking, no gas to property. For the past few years they would regularly call and ask me to have a Smart meter installed, I refused, as we are allowed to. They have never read the meter in the five years I have lived here, something I tell them when I have had to talk to them, the meter is outside and they always tell me someone has read it, when I was not there, at which point I then ask why the bills always show that it is my submitted reading on the bill then?  At my old property if the meter wasn’t read, I would receive a letter after two years of self read readings. I pay by Direct Debit monthly, so am always in credit. So am happy with this arrangement.
This latest email at the beginning does not mention “Smart”, it is only reading further that it then does say it will be a Smart one. Is this just another way of me having to have a Smart meter installed?  
How does Economy 7 work with Smart meters?  They also never believe that the E7 comes on for a few hours, goes off and then clicks back in again and is not a set 7 hours. This is very handy at present, as I don’t need the storage heaters on overnight at this time of year and from 6 - 10 (changes this weekend when clocks change) those hours are long enough to warm the heater enough for evening comfort.
I will call them and ask why and if I have to agree to the change but wondered if other people had this problem. It is also a rented Housing Association property, would they need to know that EDF want the meter changed?
Paddle No 21:wave:
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  • Carrot007
    Carrot007 Posts: 4,534
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    OK.

    (apologies for tthis one but needs saying).
    a. There is no sane reason not to want a smart meter. It's either paranoia or making a futile point.

    b. As far as I know all E7 smart meter (or indeed non smart meter) installations these days will be 7 hours straight. Yes there were around 20 odd E7 hours (when meter was running at the right times and discouinting the 8.5 hour thing they call e7 in Scotland), and a lot of these were indeed split hours. However to get someone with an hours training on the phone at a supplier that understands any of the legacy stuff is just not going to occur! Been over 10 years since I worked on the domestic side so I may be wrong in some minor points, but probably not.

    c. HA has nothing to do with the meter it is the proporty of whoever owns it, likely a leasing company to the supplier, but the supplier has ciontrol over it. Supplier therefore has right of access and can apply for a warrant of entry if you delay (though probably only british gas would actually follow though in 95% of cases).

    d. E7 hours are not contractual and you get what you get. From what you say I am suuming you have an old teleswitch that is out of time, though maybe not as you say the hours chage with the clock. The teleswitch signal comes over radio 4 so they could easily change it. No idea if they do though/ agian some e7 hours do niot change with the clocks, and some do.

    3. Your meter sounds like an end of life chage. of course they want to fit a smart meter as the government fine them if they don't hit targets (and you also pay 60% of your bill to the govenment at least, but that is a different issue). You do not have to have a smart meter but either way you will get the same meter whether smart enabled or not. They don't buy different meters anymore.

    4. Yes there is still a yearly/2 yearly read requirement in place. (and check you are not bypassing the meter mainly). But some suppliers skirt around it. Especially if you change supplier yearly, but it sounds as if you do not. Some will take customer reads as actuals. (Especially with a photo).

    5. And lastly if you have some reason for not wanting a smart then tell them before they come out as it all needs to be prepared beforehand. But like I said, there is no good reason not to.

    Hope you enjoyed my random musings!

  • Xbigman
    Xbigman Posts: 3,884
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    (apologies for tthis one but needs saying).
    a. There is no sane reason not to want a smart meter. It's either paranoia or making a futile point.


    Rubbish. Just because you don't mind having one is not grounds to call everyone who doesn't want one insane. Nor did it need saying (for the 1000th time). 
    Try respecting other people's opinions for a change. Some people simply don't like them or, like myself, simply can't see the point of having one when I have a perfectly good meter already with decades of life left in it. 

    Darren

    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
  • Carrot007
    Carrot007 Posts: 4,534
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    Xbigman said:
    (apologies for tthis one but needs saying).
    a. There is no sane reason not to want a smart meter. It's either paranoia or making a futile point.


    Rubbish. Just because you don't mind having one is not grounds to call everyone who doesn't want one insane. Nor did it need saying (for the 1000th time). 
    Try respecting other people's opinions for a change. Some people simply don't like them or, like myself, simply can't see the point of having one when I have a perfectly good meter already with decades of life left in it. 

    Darren


    I was doing none of what you said.

    I said there was no sane/reasonable reason.

    Do not like them. Not a valid reason. I mean go with whatever you like but it's not a in any way a good reason. It's the modern equivelant of saying religion.

    As for other reasons...
    Bad for the environnment. Sorry the decision has been made the money had been spent. You will just cause more damage by being different.
    The emit blah. So does your phone. In fact it is a phone.

    Give me a valid reason and I will respect it. Your opinion had no reason to be said yet again either.

  • I meant the E7 bit that is not a 7 hour straight, turns on at 12.00 am and around 3 it goes off and then comes back on. It turns off at 10.00 am until Sunday, when it will turn on at 11.00 and go off at 9.00 am but sometime during the night it will not be on.
    I was on a cheaper tariff for at least two years but EDF gradually only offered cheaper tariffs if I swapped to a Smart meter, cunning (yes it might have saved me money but it is my choice).
    What I really want to know is, if it has to be changed and I don’t have an option, or if it is just EDF wanting to install a Smart meter?  When they do I will start looking at changing supplier each year to get deals.
    They would not need access to change it, as it is outside, so other than me turning things off while they are doing it, they don’t have to force entry etc. Not sure how long the electric would need to be off, with winter coming not a good time to be without electricity, not to mention home working due to COVID.
    Paddle No 21:wave:
  • macman
    macman Posts: 53,008
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    edited 22 October 2020 at 7:01PM
    Xbigman said:
    (apologies for tthis one but needs saying).
    a. There is no sane reason not to want a smart meter. It's either paranoia or making a futile point.


    Rubbish. Just because you don't mind having one is not grounds to call everyone who doesn't want one insane. Nor did it need saying (for the 1000th time). 
    Try respecting other people's opinions for a change. Some people simply don't like them or, like myself, simply can't see the point of having one when I have a perfectly good meter already with decades of life left in it. 

    Darren

    So, you would still object if the supplier wanted to replace your old dumb meter with a new dumb meter? 
    No free lunch, and no free laptop ;)
  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,892
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    Carrot007 said:
    a. There is no sane reason not to want a smart meter. It's either paranoia or making a futile point.
    Nope.  A smart meter can charge you more at peak times (time of use / block tariffs), can restrict your usage (load limiting), can cut you off entirely (load shedding) and share your usage info with the police and HMRC.  Not paranoia, all entirely factual (at least for those who don't have closed minds and eyes).
    Carrot007 said:
    b. As far as I know all E7 smart meter (or indeed non smart meter) installations these days will be 7 hours straight.
    Nope.  Ever heard of the South East area?  2230 - 0030 and 0230 - 0730 GMT.
  • Carrot007
    Carrot007 Posts: 4,534
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    I meant the E7 bit that is not a 7 hour straight, turns on at 12.00 am and around 3 it goes off and then comes back on. It turns off at 10.00 am until Sunday, when it will turn on at 11.00 and go off at 9.00 am but sometime during the night it will not be on.
    I was on a cheaper tariff for at least two years but EDF gradually only offered cheaper tariffs if I swapped to a Smart meter, cunning (yes it might have saved me money but it is my choice).
    What I really want to know is, if it has to be changed and I don’t have an option, or if it is just EDF wanting to install a Smart meter?  When they do I will start looking at changing supplier each year to get deals.
    They would not need access to change it, as it is outside, so other than me turning things off while they are doing it, they don’t have to force entry etc. Not sure how long the electric would need to be off, with winter coming not a good time to be without electricity, not to mention home working due to COVID.

    Yes split E7 as I said. I am 99.999% sure a smart m,eter would not provide it that way. However be aware any meter change is going to give you a straight 7 hours (8.5 scotland) change. You cannot refuse it. It will happen. You are likely just going to get issues if you refuse. And starage heating should work fine for even into the night if used properly and maintained.

    A chaNge takeS about an hour if all things are good. Maybe 30 mins off electric. Obviously times can vary due to "THINGS".
  • Carrot007
    Carrot007 Posts: 4,534
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    macman said:
    simply can't see the point of having one when I have a perfectly good meter already with decades of life left in it. 

    Darren

    So, you would still object if the supplier wanted to replace your old dumb meter with a new dumb meter? 

    I did miss that bit (to Parent Post).

    What you determine the life span of a meter is not relivant. It was always between 10 and 35 years. However due to smart roll out the government (yes government not the eliectricity suppliers who would rather it did not occur) have decalred all non smart meters legally required to be changed within X. Meter life spans have changed before, usually due to issues being found but you are legally required to have a certified meter. You want to blame someone here? Blame the government. Not going to do much though. They have far more important issues to not address.
  • Carrot007
    Carrot007 Posts: 4,534
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    Gerry1 said:
    Carrot007 said:
    a. There is no sane reason not to want a smart meter. It's either paranoia or making a futile point.
    Nope.  A smart meter can charge you more at peak times (time of use / block tariffs), can restrict your usage (load limiting), can cut you off entirely (load shedding) and share your usage info with the police and HMRC.  Not paranoia, all entirely factual (at least for those who don't have closed minds and eyes).

    ? An E7 meter charges you more at peak times. No difference. No new tarrifs yet. Nothing has changed. And you demanding and old meter is just going to land you on a higher tarrif to compensate.

    Also they do not restrict your usege in any way. If it became a requirement it would be done at grid level anyway. So meter would not be a factor.

    Usage is also not shared with anyone. So yeah paranoia. It is only usually collected monthly (even if in 30 min slot intervals).



    Gerry1 said:
    Carrot007 said:
    b. As far as I know all E7 smart meter (or indeed non smart meter) installations these days will be 7 hours straight.
    Nope.  Ever heard of the South East area?  2230 - 0030 and 0230 - 0730 GMT.
    Yess, I did an analysis of all the e7 times. As far as I know there are no timeswitched E7 Split Hours Tarrifs (not the tarrif you electric company calls one). Smart meters (and non teleswitched meters) would only use these tarrifs (again nothing to do with what the companies call a tariff). So yes Shouls you get a smart meter. Or a meter chage you would be on a straight 7 hours (8.5 Scotland).

  • Gerry1
    Gerry1 Posts: 9,892
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    edited 22 October 2020 at 7:46PM
    Carrot007 said:
    However due to smart roll out the government (yes government not the eliectricity suppliers who would rather it did not occur) have decalred all non smart meters legally required to be changed within X.
    Would you like to advise Ofgem that they are wrong because you know something that they don't?  Ofgem's FAQs state:-

    Are smart meters mandatory?

    While we and the government think that all consumers will benefit from smart meters, they aren’t compulsory and you can choose not to have one installed.

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