What is this boiler noise? Is it dangerous?

scarletjim

In the last few days our boiler has started making a strange vibrating noise for about 10 seconds at a time every now and then (sometimes every few hours, sometimes more often). I’ve made a video – the vibrating noise begins on about 30 seconds:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13ImAIxBVR8VJZD31OYnQfX2zzkKZdpF2/view

Not being qualified or competent with such things, I’ve done nothing myself other than a). bleed the radiators, and b). check the external pipe for obstructions.

I’m assuming I need a boiler engineer, but a few quick questions:

1.       Is it dangerous and/or urgent (to avoid damage)? In other words, while I’m waiting for the engineer, should I turn the boiler off or is it ok to keep on?

2.       Should I ask for a service, or a repair? Is it likely that the service will remedy the problem?

3.       Any idea what might be the cause?

Thanks in anticipation.

Jeepers_Creepers

Hi Jim.

Wow, I haven't heard anything like that before! :-)  No idea what it is, tho' it could be a failing fan bearing that rattles now and then, perhaps as it speeds up/slows down.

Is it dangerous? Dunno - 'cos I dunno what it is. However, one thing I would check is the system pressure; does your boiler have a pressure gauge? Is it a 'sealed' system or do you have a small header tank in the loft? If it has a gauge and that reading it going waaaay up, then - yes - I'd turn it off...

Another thing you can do is email the boiler manufacturer and send them the link to the noise - see what they say. 

As for getting a GasSafe out, it doesn't matter on what basis - you want someone who can ID and fix this and - ideally - one who's familiar with that make of boiler. 

scarletjim

Yes, I have a water cylinder upstairs, and pressure gauges both there and on the boiler itself. Dunno if anything else in the loft, don't think so. Pressure seems fine - was around 1.5, I bled the radiators and reduced it right down to zero, then increased it back to 1.0, and it's still roughly that now, yes the occasional vibrating persists.

Good idea about the manufacturer, though god knows how long it will take them to answer... worth a try though.

Suppose safest option is to keep it off, and keep sending messages / making calls to see if I can get someone to come and look at it tomorrow or Saturday. Already sent several messages via Checkatrade earlier today, but none replied yet. I suppose if they're any good they're probably at work right now!

ic

Ask for recommendations from friends and family, or on local facebook groups, and call the numbers you get.  Checkatrade is just a yellow pages, people pay them to take on your job - it isn't a guarantee of quality.

Jeepers_Creepers

scarletjim said:

Yes, I have a water cylinder upstairs, and pressure gauges both there and on the boiler itself. Dunno if anything else in the loft, don't think so. Pressure seems fine - was around 1.5, I bled the radiators and reduced it right down to zero, then increased it back to 1.0, and it's still roughly that now, yes the occasional vibrating persists.

Good idea about the manufacturer, though god knows how long it will take them to answer... worth a try though.

Suppose safest option is to keep it off, and keep sending messages / making calls to see if I can get someone to come and look at it tomorrow or Saturday. Already sent several messages via Checkatrade earlier today, but none replied yet. I suppose if they're any good they're probably at work right now!

If you have a pressure gauge on the boiler, then you won't have the small header tank in the loft I was referring to. If the pressure is set to 1 bar and doesn't increase significantly from this when the heating has been on for a good 10 minutes, then that aspect is good at least. 

What make is the boiler? You could look for a fixed-price repair which should sort it for around £250, and I think that would be reasonable if it were the fan, but we don't know (they also replace any other dodgy bits as part of the repair). 

It would be good to have an idea of what the fault is first, tho', 'cos if it's something simple then a 'normal' repair could be cheaper.

It's an unusual noise... 

scarletjim

It's a Worcester Greenstar. It's about 13 years old, but when I last had it serviced 2 years ago the guy said it was in perfect condition and 'these models are so good they can last 30 years', dunno how true that is.

How do these fixed price repairs work though? What's to stop them from agreeing (say) £250, then coming out and fixing it if it's easy, or refunding my £250 if it's hard and they can't fix it easily - in which case in the first scenario I'm getting ripped off, and in the second scenario I'm back to square one and have wasted a few days having no boiler! Or am I misunderstanding how these fixed repairs work?

tonyh66

I wouldn't be using checkatrade or any of those other sites, go onto the worcester website and find an installer on there.

Jeepers_Creepers

scarletjim said:

It's a Worcester Greenstar. It's about 13 years old, but when I last had it serviced 2 years ago the guy said it was in perfect condition and 'these models are so good they can last 30 years', dunno how true that is.

How do these fixed price repairs work though? What's to stop them from agreeing (say) £250, then coming out and fixing it if it's easy, or refunding my £250 if it's hard and they can't fix it easily - in which case in the first scenario I'm getting ripped off, and in the second scenario I'm back to square one and have wasted a few days having no boiler! Or am I misunderstanding how these fixed repairs work?

A few companies do them. Usually they work out ok, but occasionally not so well - as I found out recently...

They have obviously set the 'fixed price' at a level that works for them. It's obviously a bit of a lottery as to whether you get good value for money or pay an excessive amount for a small part. It is best when you have a fair idea of what's wrong, so you know how much it would usually cost to fix - you make the judgement based on that. If all that's gone is a £15 thermistor that clips into place, they win. If your boiler needs a new pump, diverter valve and a few more gubbins, you win. 

Recently I had a part go on my GlowWorm and a local GasSafe told me it would cost in excess of £200 parts and labour, but he wouldn't even want to go there as my boiler was around 13 years old; he feared that all the parts he'd need to remove to get to the leaking one would, themselves, likely leak from their seals when replaced! He suggested a fixed-price outfit instead. This I did. The F-P engineer came out and made a list of what he'd replace; they have a policy of trying to guarantee zero come-backs within 3 months, so actually replace EVERYTHING that looks dodgy! The list grew, and I was thinking I was going to get astonishing value for money :-).  Sadly, when he tallied it all up he declared my boiler 'beyond economic repair' due to its age, so regretfully couldn't do the work. Oh, and that's £95 for an abortive call-out fee, thank you (which I successfully claimed back with some 'discussion'). Bottom line - if my boiler had been newer, I think I would have had a great deal for my £275. As it happens, tho', I didn't...

I'd still contact Worcester first - I think you may be surprised at how good these companies are at responding (you'd have had a reply by now :-) ). Armed with the most likely cause, you then make a judgement; if it's going to cost in excess of £200, then consider 'fixed price' (provided your boiler ain't too old) as you should get everything sorted that needs doing. If it's a cheap part, call out the guy who did your servicing. 

To be honest, I think in your case I'd do the latter first anyway. Chance are he'll diagnose the problem pdq and will then give you the options. Depending on what's needed, you take the route that suits you best. If you decided to not go with him, then his call-out charge should be not too bad, say around £50 (for most places). As I said, my guy didn't want to touch my boiler!

Jeepers_Creepers

Have you tried any other forums with your issue?

Eg: https://www.plumbersforums.net/forums/plumbing-forum-plumbing-advice.15/
https://www.diynot.com/diy/forums/plumbing/

twopenny

I agree that it sounds like the fan. Probably needs replacing the bearings.

You can go online to Worcester and ask via their web chat/faq's.

I'd get a local gas fitter to come and have a look. Ask around who knows a reliable one and get more than one quote. But I'd be sharp about it because that isn't a good noise. Unlikely to be dangerous but you're going to be without heating or hot water in the cold months. Also they all seem to be very busy.

scarletjim

Actually I have some new info that may or may not be related. When I went into the en suite this morning, I heard a quick loud buzzing sound from the ceiling / loft above. It happened twice. Can't remember if it was before or after I turned on a tap. Lasted less than a second each time. It's hard to explain - it sounded like air rushing very quickly through something corrugated or perhaps a piece of paper if you know what I mean. Or the noise that a computer hard drive sometimes makes when it's on it's way out. A little bit like the sound at 1:15 in this video, but quicker and higher pitched. Brrrpppp!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVN2bEwlW0U

Is that a sign of anything? (Or just a sign of me being paranoid ? lol)

Now, to answer the outstanding questions above:
 - Funnily enough, those two other forums are the only other ones I'd posted my query on!
 - I did send the video to Worcester on Thursday, but they've not replied yet. I don't think they'll do FP repair for mine anyway, as it's 12/13 years old.  
 - I have booked a recommended local Gas-Safe, but he can't come until Tuesday morning now. Stupid thing is, I turned the boiler back on yesterday morning to see how long it takes before it does the stupid noise, and the damn thing didn't do it all day! Could the problem have gone away or fixed itself somehow? I guess it's impossible to say without knowing what the problem is... Anyway, he's coming on Tuesday, so if it misbehaves between now and then, he'll do fault finding, and if it doesn't, he'll just do a full service. I'll report back on Tuesday afternoon.