Suspended without pay

Comms69

matt0677 said:

Undervalued said:

matt0677 said:

Hello

Thread title is not completely accurate.  I've been told not to return to work until I'm "fit".

Long version:

I've recently begun to have what I believe to be anxiety attacks.  Three recently at work, maybe over a month to six weeks.  Yesterday, for the second time I was sent home.  I later received a call from my manager who said it's been decided I'm not to return until I've solved the issue.  Two of the attacks seem to have been triggered by a certain part of the job which I find difficult, but have carried out to a decent level up until recently.  That part of the job is mental, but the anxiety it causes, causes severe trembling so I can't write or operate machinery.  There are 4 of us doing the same job and we work as a team - I am fine doing the other parts which is just physical and operating.
I was already seeking help but the NHS is a bit difficult to deal with right now.  I have been referred to a Neurology team by a GP for suspected neuropathy, and have referred myself to a therapist but none of this happens quickly.

I do not get sick pay, just SSP after the first 3 days.  Which means I will not be able to pay the rent.
I have applied for another job and will be looking for others today.  What happened to "light duties"?  I think my employer is being a bit unfair, they are a decent-sized pharmaceuticals company with 2,000 employees.

If I hand my notice in I should get a refund on my savings scheme money which will buy me another month.  I've got credit cards which could buy several more months but that would be digging a hole.  I don't want to default on the rent.

I am effectively a warehouseman / storesperson with a lot of experience, but I seem to have caved in to stress over the past year.  Lots of other stuff has gone wrong.

If you've made it this far any advice would be handy.  I've looked at the benefits system and they may have a safety net but not sure that's any help if I hand my notice in or get sacked.  Does my employer have any obligations?  I've been there under two years so I doubt it...

Thanks for any advice
Matt

There is no legal requirement for the employer to make any adjustments unless your illness amounts to a disability (for employment law purposes). So your employer is legally entitled to say "do your full normal job or stay off sick until you can".

Although a GP can make suggestions on a "fit" (i.e sick) note as to what adjustments might allow you to work (e.g light duties) an employer is not in any way obliged to follow these suggestions.

The lack of two years service makes no difference to this, although it does make it easier for your employer to terminate your employment if that is what they choose to do.

Remember the employer is meeting the cost of even SSP, the days of them being able to reclaim it from the government are long gone.

Sorry, I missed this.  The "brutal" was aimed at the very blunt poster above.
I appreciate the advice, it's as I expected although I didn't know the employer pays SSP, I expected that to come from the government.

I prefer straight to the point. I guess i'd rather have that, than (not applicable to other comments on this thread) waffly responses which ultimately say the same thing. 

Undervalued

matt0677 said:

Undervalued said:

matt0677 said:

Hello

Thread title is not completely accurate.  I've been told not to return to work until I'm "fit".

Long version:

I've recently begun to have what I believe to be anxiety attacks.  Three recently at work, maybe over a month to six weeks.  Yesterday, for the second time I was sent home.  I later received a call from my manager who said it's been decided I'm not to return until I've solved the issue.  Two of the attacks seem to have been triggered by a certain part of the job which I find difficult, but have carried out to a decent level up until recently.  That part of the job is mental, but the anxiety it causes, causes severe trembling so I can't write or operate machinery.  There are 4 of us doing the same job and we work as a team - I am fine doing the other parts which is just physical and operating.
I was already seeking help but the NHS is a bit difficult to deal with right now.  I have been referred to a Neurology team by a GP for suspected neuropathy, and have referred myself to a therapist but none of this happens quickly.

I do not get sick pay, just SSP after the first 3 days.  Which means I will not be able to pay the rent.
I have applied for another job and will be looking for others today.  What happened to "light duties"?  I think my employer is being a bit unfair, they are a decent-sized pharmaceuticals company with 2,000 employees.

If I hand my notice in I should get a refund on my savings scheme money which will buy me another month.  I've got credit cards which could buy several more months but that would be digging a hole.  I don't want to default on the rent.

I am effectively a warehouseman / storesperson with a lot of experience, but I seem to have caved in to stress over the past year.  Lots of other stuff has gone wrong.

If you've made it this far any advice would be handy.  I've looked at the benefits system and they may have a safety net but not sure that's any help if I hand my notice in or get sacked.  Does my employer have any obligations?  I've been there under two years so I doubt it...

Thanks for any advice
Matt

There is no legal requirement for the employer to make any adjustments unless your illness amounts to a disability (for employment law purposes). So your employer is legally entitled to say "do your full normal job or stay off sick until you can".

Although a GP can make suggestions on a "fit" (i.e sick) note as to what adjustments might allow you to work (e.g light duties) an employer is not in any way obliged to follow these suggestions.

The lack of two years service makes no difference to this, although it does make it easier for your employer to terminate your employment if that is what they choose to do.

Remember the employer is meeting the cost of even SSP, the days of them being able to reclaim it from the government are long gone.

Sorry, I missed this.  The "brutal" was aimed at the very blunt poster above.
I appreciate the advice, it's as I expected although I didn't know the employer pays SSP, I expected that to come from the government.

A popular misconception but it changed many many years ago. For a while small business could indirectly set the cost off against NI payments but that too has ceased.

So yes, any employee on SSP is costing the employer a hundred quid a week plus, very often, having to pay overtime to another employee or agency costs to get the job done.

matt0677

That explains a few things.  Sad state of affairs.
I spoke to my boss again since my last post and he has changed his tone slightly.  I asked about "light duties" and he said the question hasn't been asked, but if I can get a doctor to say I'm fit for work or light duties I can return (maybe).  I also have booked an appointment with a psychologist this morning.  I asked if this would count as a doctor for their insistence on a written response from a doctor.  He doesn't know.

What annoys me is that apparently "they", HR and a director are saying I've made no attempt to sort it.  I've had two GP phone appointments, one blood test with a repeat booked for Friday, and the GP has referred me to a specialist.  They are insisting I physically see a doctor.  Which would make no difference in my opinion, and is difficult if even possible.  All my GP could say was that it sounds like this, but you need to see a specialist.

I'm looking for alternative employment regardless now.  The previous two times I was hospitalised I was paid in full for the first 6 weeks.

TBagpuss

matt0677 said:

That explains a few things.  Sad state of affairs.
I spoke to my boss again since my last post and he has changed his tone slightly.  I asked about "light duties" and he said the question hasn't been asked, but if I can get a doctor to say I'm fit for work or light duties I can return (maybe).  I also have booked an appointment with a psychologist this morning.  I asked if this would count as a doctor for their insistence on a written response from a doctor.  He doesn't know.

What annoys me is that apparently "they", HR and a director are saying I've made no attempt to sort it.  I've had two GP phone appointments, one blood test with a repeat booked for Friday, and the GP has referred me to a specialist.  They are insisting I physically see a doctor.  Which would make no difference in my opinion, and is difficult if even possible.  All my GP could say was that it sounds like this, but you need to see a specialist.

I'm looking for alternative employment regardless now.  The previous two times I was hospitalised I was paid in full for the first 6 weeks.

I would put that in writing to your employer - do a brief timeline explaining what steps you have taken, and when, and that you are believe that you would be able to return to undertake light duties / everything other than the specific task which triggered the panic attack, and would like to o so. Maybe e-mail to your boss and CC to HR, if you can. 

Say you would be happy to be assessed by Occupational Health if they wish.

As undervalued said, SSP comes straight our of the employers pocket these days so , particularly for smaller businesses, it is much more onerous to support employees who are unwell

Masomnia

I don't agree with the previous posters. If they've sent you home when you've presented for work then you should be on full pay until you actually do get signed off by a doctor.

Comms69

Masomnia said:

I don't agree with the previous posters. If they've sent you home when you've presented for work then you should be on full pay until you actually do get signed off by a doctor.

Not if you're not capable of doing the job. 

It's no different to OP turning up on crutches

Undervalued

Masomnia said:

I don't agree with the previous posters. If they've sent you home when you've presented for work then you should be on full pay until you actually do get signed off by a doctor.

It depends on what you mean by "sent home"? 

If the employer refuses to let an employee work,  despite the employee insisting they are fit enough to work, then possibly.

However if the employer simply encourages somebody who appears to be unwell to decide for themselves to go home, then no. That would be no different to the employee self certifying as sick.

matt0677

I was simply told to go home, no choice.
Also "don't come in unless you're feeling 100%" became "don't come in until you've got a fit-note" overnight.  I guess he spoke to HR.
I spoke to a psychotherapist(?) or mental practitioner this morning who was able to get me a GP appointment the same afternoon!  Unbelievable.  He said I'm unable to work so case closed, I guess.  I am on the road I probably need to be on, but I will probably lose my job (and my house) before I get there.

Smodlet

I feel for you, matt0677.  I hope you find a way through this.  Whatever the aspect of your job which causes you stress is needs to be addressed one way or another:  Would training help, do you think?  If it is just something you do not want to do, ever, then is there any possibility of a move to another role where this duty is not required, even if it means a reduction in salary?  Might this not be preferable to having to look for another job?  HTH.

matt0677

Smodlet said:

I feel for you, matt0677.  I hope you find a way through this.  Whatever the aspect of your job which causes you stress is needs to be addressed one way or another:  Would training help, do you think?  If it is just something you do not want to do, ever, then is there any possibility of a move to another role where this duty is not required, even if it means a reduction in salary?  Might this not be preferable to having to look for another job?  HTH.

Thank you. Not within the company - it's HR and a director who decided to get rid of me on unpaid leave.  Alternative employment is the only real option I think.
I'm going in tomorrow to drop off my GP's note and probably collect my personal belongings.  Will see what the boss says then.