What's your opinion on professional careers advice?

theoretica

Works the other way at least as much.  If you have paid for advice or a lesson will you really listen and try out everything suggested to get your money's worth in a way you wouldn't with free?

Nebulous2

I’m not sure I can add much to this, but here goes. You need to know what you want to do, and what you are good at.

I kind of peripherally work in care and have interviewed over 1000 people for care jobs. It’s possible to start in a care job at minimum wage and be a manager in a care service on £50k in 5 years. It’s much more likely to do 6 months and leave, disillusioned.

The people who succeed are motivated, convinced it is for them and willing to learn. 

My personal experience is that I’ve had long-term jobs, but I’ve also got fed-up and left for lower paid jobs. If they are too different it hasn’t worked. The same applies to the people I’ve recruited. I interviewed someone as a company director on £120k applying for a basic grade care job on £15k. Some people making a huge change have worked out. Most of them haven’t. 

I’ve a family member who graduated last year. She knew her interests, had exceptional exam results, and looked for careers with the highest earnings, and highest job satisfaction before choosing her degree. So far it’s working out very well. A year into her graduate programme, earning more than most, and very happy in her job. 

I suppose what I’m trying to say is, much of this is down to you. Decide what you like, what will pay the bills, and go for it. 

raycali

theoretica said:

Works the other way at least as much.  If you have paid for advice or a lesson will you really listen and try out everything suggested to get your money's worth in a way you wouldn't with free?

In my degree, we studied upon how paying money for something automatically made us feel better. It was an interesting topic. Simply buying expensive brands, in this case cheese, made us more agreeable and happy about specific products of cheese. We learned it didn't matter about the product, which was virtually identical in its quality, we learned that its branding inspired the most confidence, even if it was a higher price for the same thing. The cheese with the better marketing was more tasty than the supermarket brand, despite the identical food being eaten.

But you haven't answered me, and there comes a time where the power of suggestion fails. You haven't put much thought in my reply; would someone who put down hard money do better? Let's say we're on a show, we have myself, some lost guy, and you have two advisors: joe down the street who can fix your radiator, and a professional career coach with shining marketing and looks 15 years younger then they do. The audience then votes on the best advisor.

Where is the audience going to put there money on? The coach, of course. Why? Not because they know anything about work or employment, but because they understand how to live and grow within that suggestion of being so, and they have a stronger skill of building trust. Joe's probably made any number of enemies from his life choices, like anyone else, yet he's going to pay harder for that. Life has enough eruptions and meteors anyway, we'll go for the hairspray coach, one that can at least market themselves properly. 

But what have we learned so far? Nothing really. Only that sometimes people pay lots of money, sometimes they don't. We're back to square 1. Not a good place to be in your mid 30s, when you're asking questions and having them turned on you. Sometimes you just want a straight answer, and since no one is up for it, maybe the solution is paying for it.

raycali

Nebulous2 said

I suppose what I’m trying to say is, much of this is down to you. Decide what you like, what will pay the bills, and go for it. 

I think it would be hard to describe what I really wanted. Like, having my soul intact after a day's work. When you talk about things on that kind of level, people want to start talking about compromise. Well then, what am I allowed to want.

AskAsk

raycali said:

AskAsk said:

the OP comes across as a very difficult person to have a decent conversation with.  he asks for advice and input but he doesn't seem to accept them and has his opinions, which are very strong, so i doubt any professional career advice will be of any help.  he clashes with everyone at work and moves from job to job, always having problems with jobs.  it is a miracle he has been able to find a job at all, when employer see his CV record!

AskAsk, the reason why I can get work easily is because I'm hardworking likable and reliable but my biggest selling point is being an honest man. In the middle of the lockdown I had two job offers. When you're honest it's TOO easy to get work. Some people I've met swear by lying. I disagree, being earnest pays. 

My question is if professional advice works. It seems quite popular and I'm in a sticky place so maybe it's a worthwhile investment, but it's so expensive that I want a little more insight into it. If you're a naysayer to the whole thing, maybe you're right, it would be useful to have more insight though. I understand they are only going to be as good what you make of them, I just want to know precisely what you're getting into with this kind of thing if you choose it. 

If you can afford it and you are desperate, then maybe try it.  At least then it will stop you wondering.  The consensus so far seems to be no, but people are not in your position so it is difficult for them to put themselves into your shoes.

When I was talking about self employment, I was thinking about you getting trained into an area of self employment that you think you would enjoy and be good at, not that you already have the skills.  You are young enough to train into a new career, if you can afford to do so.

I think your problem is that you have had so many jobs, but none suit, so you have absolutely no idea where your place is, and this is unusual, as most people will have some kind of idea about what they would like to do.

Nebulous2

raycali said:

Nebulous2 said

I suppose what I’m trying to say is, much of this is down to you. Decide what you like, what will pay the bills, and go for it. 

I think it would be hard to describe what I really wanted. Like, having my soul intact after a day's work. When you talk about things on that kind of level, people want to start talking about compromise. Well then, what am I allowed to want.

I think I can relate to that. I'm not as deep as that, but one of my criteria going through life is / was that I want to look in the mirror in the morning and like what I see. Care work has been good for that.

Sure there are compromises. There isn't the money to provide what many people need. Yet there is always the feeling that much of what we do is values- driven, and that we are making a difference in the world. Part of that is celebrating small victories. Someone eating their own breakfast, may be the culmination of two years work and recognising the achievement is important.

In my last post I said many people become disillusioned with care. That's often because they aim too high, want to change the world, and are incapable of valuing the small gains.

Working in care certainly isn't for everyone, and I'm not trying to point you there, but it feeds the soul for some people, fails to do so for many, and is increasingly simply a means of paying the bills for others.

raycali

AskAsk said:

If you can afford it and you are desperate, then maybe try it.  At least then it will stop you wondering.  The consensus so far seems to be no, but people are not in your position so it is difficult for them to put themselves into your shoes.

When I was talking about self employment, I was thinking about you getting trained into an area of self employment that you think you would enjoy and be good at, not that you already have the skills.  You are young enough to train into a new career, if you can afford to do so.

I think your problem is that you have had so many jobs, but none suit, so you have absolutely no idea where your place is, and this is unusual, as most people will have some kind of idea about what they would like to do.

Thanks AskAsk. I thought that experimenting a lot would broaden my "palette" so to speak and leave me with a clear idea of what to do, or that it would at least offer more opportunities. Neither have transpired. I think a lot of people tend to eventually fall into or gravitate towards something depending on circumstances, and that hasn't appeared to me either. So once you come up empty after that, people are scratching their heads about you. I'm a fairly hardworking, intelligent and ethical person, pretty normal in terms of work, and not the kind that you'd usually associate as a drifter. 

Nebulous2 said:

I think I can relate to that. I'm not as deep as that, but one of my criteria going through life is / was that I want to look in the mirror in the morning and like what I see. Care work has been good for that.

Sure there are compromises. There isn't the money to provide what many people need. Yet there is always the feeling that much of what we do is values- driven, and that we are making a difference in the world. Part of that is celebrating small victories. Someone eating their own breakfast, may be the culmination of two years work and recognising the achievement is important.

Probably my most satisfying jobs have been those around helping others, and I still really enjoy helping people when I can. Unfortunately, they also turn out to be the lowest paid and least respected so you pay quite a sacrifice for choosing that path. And you still have to be the right face too. I tried getting into hospital portering for the NHS several years back and got a bit of "This is not for everyone" talk in interviews. I was up for it but couldn't get a break. And there's other ways you can help other people - fixing their computers, repairing their houses, sorting their finances, protecting them from scams. Helping others is important to me but I have to find a way to help myself first.