What's your opinion on professional careers advice?

Marcon

raycali said:

Brynsam said:

Professional careers advice comes in many guises and not all of it requires you to pay. For example, have you used https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk to the full, including the facility to ring them and discuss?

To be honest this is part of the reason I'm thinking of using professional advice. I feel tired of being treated like someone who doesn't know my own surroundings. Not that you've been rude at all, sorry if that seems harsh. But when you ask this kind of question, you somewhat expect that people understand you've already tried the things already available, so maybe (for me personally) this is a job for a professional.

You might 'somewhat expect' that, but the reality is that anyone who has been using this board for more than a few days quickly realises that taking anything as read is a mistake. Frequently people post here without doing even the most basic googling for help, so please don't take exception to the fact that people answering can't automatically distinguish which category you fall into. It'll deter people from answering who might otherwise have something to say which you haven't thought of. Your experience may be that 'most if not all free advice leads nowhere', but other posters may have had better experiences.

ceremony

Have you considered starting your own business?

I'm similar to you with my view of 'bad policy and instruction'. I went self employed a long time ago. My motivation for doing that was actually chronic health issues - I could 'get work done on time', but I had good days and bad days and employers seemed to care more about me "being at my desk 37 hours a week" than they did about whether the work was getting done. A nice perk of being self-employed, though, is that I don't have to answer to anyone except my clients. Also, the results of the work I do go into my pocket - rather than pulling off a miracle that saves the company a fortune, and being given a bottle of wine as a thank-you.

It took a long time to build a business up, and it was very stressful, but the long-term pay-off was worth it.

Middlestitch

raycali said:

AskAsk said:

What job would include slapping your head?

Have you considered self employment?  That way, you don't need to clash with anyone.

Self-employment means much MORE clashing with people than an employee, as anyone in that capacity would tell you: your taxman, employees, customers, contractors, accountants, debt collectors, traffic wardens, and so forth. If you want to be self-employed, every hour you breathe is a fight. I've no idea why people push self-employment as some kind of escape from reality into dreams when it is really not. Especially when I've told from the outset I have no skills to reach that level of independence. I have respect for people who make it.

I can't disclose my job, but it involves something to do with benefits, and if you get an e-mail from me, chances are it would be about we're coming for your money whether you like it or not - but here's our signposts to this and that. I'm not the face you want to see, or place you want to be, basically. And it's not the job I want either.

Reading this thread, it soon becomes apparent why you are having issues. You shoot down anyone who attempts to respond to what your post has actually said, clearly expecting them to be mind readers and realise what you were assuming/not saying. You have had 50 full time jobs and you are only in your 30s; every job you get is beneath you; you fall out with everyone around. Then to cap it all...you can't disclose your job. Why not?

Your take on self employment is hopelessly misconceived. 'Anyone in that capacity would tell you...' No, we wouldn't.

Rather than seeking careers advice, maybe a course on interpersonal skills and communication techniques would put you in a much stronger position?

AskAsk

Middlestitch said:

raycali said:

AskAsk said:

What job would include slapping your head?

Have you considered self employment?  That way, you don't need to clash with anyone.

Self-employment means much MORE clashing with people than an employee, as anyone in that capacity would tell you: your taxman, employees, customers, contractors, accountants, debt collectors, traffic wardens, and so forth. If you want to be self-employed, every hour you breathe is a fight. I've no idea why people push self-employment as some kind of escape from reality into dreams when it is really not. Especially when I've told from the outset I have no skills to reach that level of independence. I have respect for people who make it.

I can't disclose my job, but it involves something to do with benefits, and if you get an e-mail from me, chances are it would be about we're coming for your money whether you like it or not - but here's our signposts to this and that. I'm not the face you want to see, or place you want to be, basically. And it's not the job I want either.

Reading this thread, it soon becomes apparent why you are having issues. You shoot down anyone who attempts to respond to what your post has actually said, clearly expecting them to be mind readers and realise what you were assuming/not saying. You have had 50 full time jobs and you are only in your 30s; every job you get is beneath you; you fall out with everyone around. Then to cap it all...you can't disclose your job. Why not?

Your take on self employment is hopelessly misconceived. 'Anyone in that capacity would tell you...' No, we wouldn't.

Rather than seeking careers advice, maybe a course on interpersonal skills and communication techniques would put you in a much stronger position?

the OP comes across as a very difficult person to have a decent conversation with.  he asks for advice and input but he doesn't seem to accept them and has his opinions, which are very strong, so i doubt any professional career advice will be of any help.  he clashes with everyone at work and moves from job to job, always having problems with jobs.  it is a miracle he has been able to find a job at all, when employer see his CV record!

this was why I had suggested the self employment route as someone with the OP's personality is better off working on his own and not have to work in a team with other people, unless he is the boss.

OP - i think you should take a look at yourself and work out where the problem is and how to deal with it as you don't come across as someone that people can talk to and have a proper conversation with, and i think this is the root of your problem than the job itself.

raycali

ceremony said:

Have you considered starting your own business?

I'm similar to you with my view of 'bad policy and instruction'. I went self employed a long time ago. My motivation for doing that was actually chronic health issues - I could 'get work done on time', but I had good days and bad days and employers seemed to care more about me "being at my desk 37 hours a week" than they did about whether the work was getting done. A nice perk of being self-employed, though, is that I don't have to answer to anyone except my clients. Also, the results of the work I do go into my pocket - rather than pulling off a miracle that saves the company a fortune, and being given a bottle of wine as a thank-you.

It took a long time to build a business up, and it was very stressful, but the long-term pay-off was worth it.

A lot of people here are talking about self employment, and that would be ideal, except I don't have any kind of business model to sell or profit from. I can make websites but trying to break into that market totally put me off. The hours and the work involved, plus all the volunteering in comparison to the money I earned was virtually nothing, I probably sold one website ever. 

But if you have made it yourself, fair play. I've worked with a lot of contractors in the past and have always admired them, the work they put in is crazy hard, and it's easy to build relationships with subcontractors, just be straight up front, honest and no horsing around. So much easier than corporate bullies who like throwing their weight around. I've seen a lot of that and hate it. 

Middlestitch said:

Reading this thread, it soon becomes apparent why you are having issues. You shoot down anyone who attempts to respond to what your post has actually said, clearly expecting them to be mind readers and realise what you were assuming/not saying. You have had 50 full time jobs and you are only in your 30s; every job you get is beneath you; you fall out with everyone around. Then to cap it all...you can't disclose your job. Why not? 

You see, your post is the exact reason I'm considering investing in advice. No, I'm not expecting mind-reading or instant fixes, that's unreasonable. But I expect a certain level of decency too, and things like trying the first result on google, or simply "self employment" with no further elaboration aren't exactly conducive either, and if this is what you get for free, maybe it's time to start putting money down instead. That's the conversation I want to have.

Sure I fall out with people sometimes. Who doesn't? Part of the mandatory training for my current job teaches that conflict in the workplace is inevitable, and it's better to face it then try to avoid it. If you can't handle that, you're going to find me hard to deal with, and maybe we're the wrong match. It still doesn't address if buying advice is better than asking joe public. 

In answer to your final question - I have answered this - it's about benefits and taxation, and I won't talk about it because you may have strong feelings about it. You might not agree with it, I could have made a decision about you which has affected you, it's definitely not something that you would divulge to strangers if you did it yourself. And no I don't like it, this is my job because corona.

raycali

AskAsk said:

the OP comes across as a very difficult person to have a decent conversation with.  he asks for advice and input but he doesn't seem to accept them and has his opinions, which are very strong, so i doubt any professional career advice will be of any help.  he clashes with everyone at work and moves from job to job, always having problems with jobs.  it is a miracle he has been able to find a job at all, when employer see his CV record!

AskAsk, the reason why I can get work easily is because I'm hardworking likable and reliable but my biggest selling point is being an honest man. In the middle of the lockdown I had two job offers. When you're honest it's TOO easy to get work. Some people I've met swear by lying. I disagree, being earnest pays. 

My question is if professional advice works. It seems quite popular and I'm in a sticky place so maybe it's a worthwhile investment, but it's so expensive that I want a little more insight into it. If you're a naysayer to the whole thing, maybe you're right, it would be useful to have more insight though. I understand they are only going to be as good what you make of them, I just want to know precisely what you're getting into with this kind of thing if you choose it. 

raycali

Marcon said:

You might 'somewhat expect' that, but the reality is that anyone who has been using this board for more than a few days quickly realises that taking anything as read is a mistake. Frequently people post here without doing even the most basic googling for help, so please don't take exception to the fact that people answering can't automatically distinguish which category you fall into. It'll deter people from answering who might otherwise have something to say which you haven't thought of. Your experience may be that 'most if not all free advice leads nowhere', but other posters may have had better experiences.

My experience with free advice is that it's rubbish. Pretty much anyone can throw out the tired old nonsense, like going back to study, learning on the internet, talking to your manager, have you tried volunteering? - etc. It's so worn out to me and I feel sorry when I hear it whisked out to a young person more like it's a punishment than actual advice, like "Here's your gruel, take it or leave it" and leaving them on their own.

I don't want to seem ungrateful but free advice seems to be pointless. I've tried it all to death and none of it works. No recruiter has ever talked about my awards for volunteering or my degree. It's become ironic because in my own job I sometimes have to refer people in very vulnerable conditions to charities or the local authorities when I'm sitting on a huge pile of money, and all I do is throw out the laziest, lowest grade information available, which is going to hurt them, and they are going to suffer, but there's nothing left to do.

So if other people have had better experiences with free career advice, fair enough, but I've yet to see anyone take advantage from it in my lifetime. The professional career coaches look attractive though my suspicion is that that they simply regurgitate pop advice in an easier glossier format, which would be a pointless investment. 

raycali

theoretica said:

https://jobs.theguardian.com/article/career-coaching-is-it-worth-the-cost-/  and note 'free review' offer at the bottom - it may still be on offer.

Okay the review may be free but "Prices from £2,800 inc VAT for coaching via Zoom or video Skype." Blimmin eck! 

theoretica

I fear you will be disappointed in paid for advice - you will get more time from the person you are dealing with, but they won't have some special paid for resources or knowledge that noone ever mentions for free.  Like many other things where something is available for free, you get more and faster for paid but fairly similar.

raycali said:

AskAsk, the reason why I can get work easily is because I'm hardworking likable and reliable but my biggest selling point is being an honest man. In the middle of the lockdown I had two job offers. When you're honest it's TOO easy to get work. Some people I've met swear by lying. I disagree, being earnest pays.

But on this, I think you may be underestimating yourself - getting jobs seems to come easily to you, but it is a definite challenge to many. 

raycali

theoretica said:

I fear you will be disappointed in paid for advice - you will get more time from the person you are dealing with, but they won't have some special paid for resources or knowledge that noone ever mentions for free.  Like many other things where something is available for free, you get more and faster for paid but fairly similar.

raycali said:

AskAsk, the reason why I can get work easily is because I'm hardworking likable and reliable but my biggest selling point is being an honest man. In the middle of the lockdown I had two job offers. When you're honest it's TOO easy to get work. Some people I've met swear by lying. I disagree, being earnest pays.

But on this, I think you may be underestimating yourself - getting jobs seems to come easily to you, but it is a definite challenge to many. 

Why would I be disappointed exactly? Knowledge is bound by scarcity. People pay more for private than public education for instance. We do that to give our children better life chances. Why isn't that the case in adulthood? Why isn't information better when it's paid for, versus being free?

Think of what you just posted. How would it change if I paid you £100 for it? Or £1000? What would be going through your head when you replied to me? Let's say you're guaranteed £10000 to reply to me. But it HAS to bring results and you are bound to this. (I know they don't do this, but whatever.) You'd reply differently from what you did when you posted for free, right? What would you do? How would you say it? 

As for work I'm making money so not ungrateful. I've been hitting the ceiling for a while though and it's become about thinking my way to a break rather than hitting out randomly. The idea of spending thousands of pounds feels stupidly empowering too, even if it ends up a lost cause or whatever.