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Problems not identified in the survey - do I have any rights?
Hannimal
Posts: 965 Forumite
I just bought a house. Wohoo!
I had a full survey through Gateway surveyors. The survey identified several small (and a couple of bigger) problems but nothing of immediate concern. The below (relevant) points raised about the bathroom in the survey are:
- Some of the laminate within the bathroom has separated around some of the joints and it is likely that this is due to water getting into the junctions and causing expansion damage. Future replacement of the bathroom floor covering should therefore be anticipated in the short to medium term.
- The seal around the bath and shower screen is in a poor condition and there is evidence of some previous leakage in this area. I strongly recommend that the seals around the bath and shower are raked out and replaced and that you monitor this area for further signs of deterioration, as it is a common area of water leakage.
When I got the keys to this place, I removed the shower panel as it was siliconed to the bathtub and you could see rot and mould. I took out all of the seal and replaced it but did not replace the shower screen. The seal I have made is good, I know how to seal a bath. I thought I'd be fine removing the panel for a few days before fitting in a new one, just taking careful showers avoiding splashing. Then, first night at the new home, both me and my partner showered carefully following a big day of moving. After showering we noticed quite a bit of water coming through the ceiling lamp below the bath.
I think the water was coming through the laminate (rather than from under the bath) and having inspected it, it was clear that moisture had gone through the floor before (as noted in the survey). The bathtub is also installed wrong - i.e. the 'foot end' of the tub is facing the wall where the shower is and taps are on the other side. There is an elevation/ edge to the side of the bath that prevents any water that gets between the wall (where the shower is) and the side of the bath from falling into the bath tub. Therefore, all of this water will just flow on the floor unless you put on a shower screen and then seal it onto the bathtub fully preventing any water from going through. This, I imagine, would then create a pool of water that would either have to be manually dried or if left there (as previous owners have probably done) it will lead to mould and rot. I suspect the tub was installed without a shower initially and after the shower was added all kinds of problems rose. As the bathtub was installed in this way there was no way to shower without standing up without water ending up on the floor. This only became obvious to us after we noticed the leak. The !!!!!! thing about this was that as soon as the water ended on the floor it went straight through it, so we didn't notice any puddles forming on the floor and didn't realise the extent of water there.
Further, looking at the ceiling below the bathtub, it is clear that it has been painted fairly recently and there is some uneven plaster (?) likely due to water seeping through around where the ceiling lamp is. The extent of the damage seems far more than what was highlighted in the survey - i.e. more than just replacing floor covering and seals - as water obviously shouldn't just seep through the bathroom floor and downstairs ceiling and it shouldn't just be a bit of laminate protecting from this.
I strongly feel that a full survey should have alarmed me to the extent of this and I feel the wording of the survey does not fully capture to extent of required repair. I am not sure what the point is paying for a survey if they don't state the kind of things a first time buyer might not realise to look for. Do I have a cause for a complaint here or is what was said in the survey (copied above) sufficient to cover their backs for this? I was expecting to replace seal and a shower but did not think I would need to get the whole tub replaced or that there would be this extent of damage (water just seeping through the ceiling). Not sure what to do - the renovations to this are going to be a bit pricey, as I have gotten a few quotes already.
I had a full survey through Gateway surveyors. The survey identified several small (and a couple of bigger) problems but nothing of immediate concern. The below (relevant) points raised about the bathroom in the survey are:
- Some of the laminate within the bathroom has separated around some of the joints and it is likely that this is due to water getting into the junctions and causing expansion damage. Future replacement of the bathroom floor covering should therefore be anticipated in the short to medium term.
- The seal around the bath and shower screen is in a poor condition and there is evidence of some previous leakage in this area. I strongly recommend that the seals around the bath and shower are raked out and replaced and that you monitor this area for further signs of deterioration, as it is a common area of water leakage.
When I got the keys to this place, I removed the shower panel as it was siliconed to the bathtub and you could see rot and mould. I took out all of the seal and replaced it but did not replace the shower screen. The seal I have made is good, I know how to seal a bath. I thought I'd be fine removing the panel for a few days before fitting in a new one, just taking careful showers avoiding splashing. Then, first night at the new home, both me and my partner showered carefully following a big day of moving. After showering we noticed quite a bit of water coming through the ceiling lamp below the bath.
I think the water was coming through the laminate (rather than from under the bath) and having inspected it, it was clear that moisture had gone through the floor before (as noted in the survey). The bathtub is also installed wrong - i.e. the 'foot end' of the tub is facing the wall where the shower is and taps are on the other side. There is an elevation/ edge to the side of the bath that prevents any water that gets between the wall (where the shower is) and the side of the bath from falling into the bath tub. Therefore, all of this water will just flow on the floor unless you put on a shower screen and then seal it onto the bathtub fully preventing any water from going through. This, I imagine, would then create a pool of water that would either have to be manually dried or if left there (as previous owners have probably done) it will lead to mould and rot. I suspect the tub was installed without a shower initially and after the shower was added all kinds of problems rose. As the bathtub was installed in this way there was no way to shower without standing up without water ending up on the floor. This only became obvious to us after we noticed the leak. The !!!!!! thing about this was that as soon as the water ended on the floor it went straight through it, so we didn't notice any puddles forming on the floor and didn't realise the extent of water there.
Further, looking at the ceiling below the bathtub, it is clear that it has been painted fairly recently and there is some uneven plaster (?) likely due to water seeping through around where the ceiling lamp is. The extent of the damage seems far more than what was highlighted in the survey - i.e. more than just replacing floor covering and seals - as water obviously shouldn't just seep through the bathroom floor and downstairs ceiling and it shouldn't just be a bit of laminate protecting from this.
I strongly feel that a full survey should have alarmed me to the extent of this and I feel the wording of the survey does not fully capture to extent of required repair. I am not sure what the point is paying for a survey if they don't state the kind of things a first time buyer might not realise to look for. Do I have a cause for a complaint here or is what was said in the survey (copied above) sufficient to cover their backs for this? I was expecting to replace seal and a shower but did not think I would need to get the whole tub replaced or that there would be this extent of damage (water just seeping through the ceiling). Not sure what to do - the renovations to this are going to be a bit pricey, as I have gotten a few quotes already.
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Comments
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I don't think you'd be able to claim.
Sounds like the extent of the problem was only revealed when you started removed things which wouldn't be expected as part of a survey.0 -
Yes - you almost have a point when you say they missed the damaged plaster in the room below, but I expect they will say that they highlighted the risk and history of leaks0
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Looks like they gave you fair warning of past water damage, and it's not in the surveyor's normal remit to start dismantling things to investigate further (or to have a shower to test it out!).1
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I strongly feel though that a surveyor should have been able to spot that there is a problem that will only be solved by replacing or turning the bathtub around. They only suggest re-sealing the tub and changing the shower screen which, had they inspected the layout, is not sufficient to fix the problem that is caused by floors seeping through and bath being incorrectly installed.
thanks for the advice. Very frustrating as I thought surveys were there for exactly these kinds of things0 -
The survey made reference to problems in the bathroom and a possible solution. As has been stated by previous posters, surveys are not intrusive or invasive.If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales0
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It didn't need to be intrusive or invasive. These problems should have been apparent for someone with a trained eye. The extent (unsuitable bathtub installation and signs of water damage in ceiling) were not mentioned.0
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If you're convinced, then you get your expert evidence (i.e. a second opinion from another surveyor about what ought to have been spotted and reported on) and go ahead with your claim.Hannimal said:It didn't need to be intrusive or invasive. These problems should have been apparent for someone with a trained eye. The extent (unsuitable bathtub installation and signs of water damage in ceiling) were not mentioned.0 -
So when you first viewed the house, you didn't notice that the bath had been "incorrectly installed"?If you are querying your Council Tax band would you please state whether you are in England, Scotland or Wales1
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It may have been installed correctly but it is not fit for purpose with the shower on top. I did not notice this and I didn't notice a lot of other things either during the 15 minutes I was allowed in here. The surveyor however was allowed in for several hours and is trained in spotting problems like these.lincroft1710 said:So when you first viewed the house, you didn't notice that the bath had been "incorrectly installed"?0 -
Ha - well I'm asking here because I may be convinced but still be in the wrongdavidmcn said:
If you're convinced, then you get your expert evidence (i.e. a second opinion from another surveyor about what ought to have been spotted and reported on) and go ahead with your claim.Hannimal said:It didn't need to be intrusive or invasive. These problems should have been apparent for someone with a trained eye. The extent (unsuitable bathtub installation and signs of water damage in ceiling) were not mentioned.1
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