Green and Ethical Food

NigeWick

shinytop said

Actually @Joefizz started this vegan v carnivore argument on 23 October at 6:42AM and you bit immediately after in your response.  

I'm an omnivore. I try and source our meat from regeneratively produced sources. If I can't be sure, I'll eat what's on offer as it is still a more dense source of nutrition than vegetables. I don't eat grains as there is evidence they cause problems with our innards. 

JKenH

 "While the risks and benefits of vegan and vegetarian diets have been debated for centuries, our results show that meat eaters have better psychological health.”

"If you're vegan or vegetarian for ethical reasons, then please personally invest extra in strategies to protect your mental health."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/03/vegetarians-likely-suffer-depression-meat-eaters-study-suggests/

Pile_o_stone

shinytop said:

Pile_o_stone said:

JKenH said:

Pile_o_stone said:

JKenH said:

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that a comment about whatever let’s you sleep at night has disappeared? That just happened to be the one to which I replied at 12.10. 

Do you mean this one?

Pile_o_stone said:

EricMears said:

Pile_o_stone said:

I can imagine that all sorts of unapproved methods of killing animals take place in abattoirs, though some of the approved ones aren't so great. 

I can imagine getting a huge win on the lottery or premium bonds.  Alas,  it hasn't happened yet.

Yet, even though you haven't personally seen a lottery win, you know that they do happen.

Oh well, whatever helps you sleep at night.

That’s right. That now makes sense of my response. Thanks.

Well, that's another thread disrupted and taken off topic. Congrats Ken.

Actually @Joefizz started this vegan v carnivore argument on 23 October at 6:42AM and you bit immediately after in your response.  

Actually Joe mentioned sheep farming and I added to the conversation. You mentioned ethics and I added to the conversation. To my thinking, your and Joe's contributions were on topic and I feel my responses were too.

The title of the thread is "Green and Ethical Food" and the opening paragraph to set the tone of the thread was:
"I started this thread so we can discuss green and ethical food and how it can save money as well as providing better nutrition and regenerating our soil and ecosystems."

Let's get back to that and try to ignore Ken and his attention seeking?

EDIT: I have just discovered something. With the old version of MSE forum, if you put someone on 'Ignore', you saw a reference that said "XXX has just posted but you can't see it because you have them on ignore". This was almost as annoying as having to read their posts, especially when they did multiple posts one after the other. However, with the new forum, someone on Ignore truly disappears (except if they create a thread - their first post on the thread is visible and nothing else).  Fantastic . 

shinytop

Pile_o_stone said:

shinytop said:

Pile_o_stone said:

JKenH said:

Pile_o_stone said:

JKenH said:

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that a comment about whatever let’s you sleep at night has disappeared? That just happened to be the one to which I replied at 12.10. 

Do you mean this one?

Pile_o_stone said:

EricMears said:

Pile_o_stone said:

I can imagine that all sorts of unapproved methods of killing animals take place in abattoirs, though some of the approved ones aren't so great. 

I can imagine getting a huge win on the lottery or premium bonds.  Alas,  it hasn't happened yet.

Yet, even though you haven't personally seen a lottery win, you know that they do happen.

Oh well, whatever helps you sleep at night.

That’s right. That now makes sense of my response. Thanks.

Well, that's another thread disrupted and taken off topic. Congrats Ken.

Actually @Joefizz started this vegan v carnivore argument on 23 October at 6:42AM and you bit immediately after in your response.  

Actually Joe mentioned sheep farming and I added to the conversation. You mentioned ethics and I added to the conversation. To my thinking, your and Joe's contributions were on topic and I feel my responses were too.

The title of the thread is "Green and Ethical Food" and the opening paragraph to set the tone of the thread was:
"I started this thread so we can discuss green and ethical food and how it can save money as well as providing better nutrition and regenerating our soil and ecosystems."

Let's get back to that and try to ignore Ken and his attention seeking?

EDIT: I have just discovered something. With the old version of MSE forum, if you put someone on 'Ignore', you saw a reference that said "XXX has just posted but you can't see it because you have them on ignore". This was almost as annoying as having to read their posts, especially when they did multiple posts one after the other. However, with the new forum, someone on Ignore truly disappears (except if they create a thread - their first post on the thread is visible and nothing else).  Fantastic . 

Fair enough, although I can't comment on the motives of other posters.  I assume there is some history. 

If would be a shame though if any attempt to discuss ethical meat production was met by an automatic, "meat is never ethical" response, as would it be were discussions about balanced and nutritional vegan diets countered with "you can't have a balanced and nutritional vegan diet".    

I eat meat but am trying to cut down and would like the animals involved to have the best life (and death) they reasonably can.  The same goes for the people working with them (not the death bit obviously).  Anyway, enough pontificating for now; there's a nice free range, locally produced pork chop from a once very happy pig in the fridge with my name on it. 

silverwhistle

I'm an omnivore but try and be selective in my meat eating. I can pluck and dress a pheasant if I'm given a brace and last weekend's main eating was game sausage casserole (some boar and venison) which is a useful way of using all the trimmings to avoid waste.

The best lamb I've had locally was some years ago as an office colleague had a paddock behind his house on the downs locally and the beast was despatched by a traveling slaughterman, avoiding a distressing trip to some far abattoir.  The consolidation of the industry (particularly in the US) and closure of local abattoirs is not a good development.

When I lived in Italy there was a local butcher who had a picture in his window of the current animal he was selling with the farmer holding the head of the animal: normally a large mature Razza Piemontese. I'm not sure such attitudes to animal welfare is particularly prevalent in Italy with pigs and crated veal calves, but a move to more localism must be a good thing.

Pile_o_stone

shinytop said:

Pile_o_stone said:

shinytop said:

Pile_o_stone said:

JKenH said:

Pile_o_stone said:

JKenH said:

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that a comment about whatever let’s you sleep at night has disappeared? That just happened to be the one to which I replied at 12.10. 

Do you mean this one?

Pile_o_stone said:

EricMears said:

Pile_o_stone said:

I can imagine that all sorts of unapproved methods of killing animals take place in abattoirs, though some of the approved ones aren't so great. 

I can imagine getting a huge win on the lottery or premium bonds.  Alas,  it hasn't happened yet.

Yet, even though you haven't personally seen a lottery win, you know that they do happen.

Oh well, whatever helps you sleep at night.

That’s right. That now makes sense of my response. Thanks.

Well, that's another thread disrupted and taken off topic. Congrats Ken.

Actually @Joefizz started this vegan v carnivore argument on 23 October at 6:42AM and you bit immediately after in your response.  

Actually Joe mentioned sheep farming and I added to the conversation. You mentioned ethics and I added to the conversation. To my thinking, your and Joe's contributions were on topic and I feel my responses were too.

The title of the thread is "Green and Ethical Food" and the opening paragraph to set the tone of the thread was:
"I started this thread so we can discuss green and ethical food and how it can save money as well as providing better nutrition and regenerating our soil and ecosystems."

Let's get back to that and try to ignore Ken and his attention seeking?

EDIT: I have just discovered something. With the old version of MSE forum, if you put someone on 'Ignore', you saw a reference that said "XXX has just posted but you can't see it because you have them on ignore". This was almost as annoying as having to read their posts, especially when they did multiple posts one after the other. However, with the new forum, someone on Ignore truly disappears (except if they create a thread - their first post on the thread is visible and nothing else).  Fantastic . 

If would be a shame though if any attempt to discuss ethical meat production was met by an automatic, "meat is never ethical" response, as would it be were discussions about balanced and nutritional vegan diets countered with "you can't have a balanced and nutritional vegan diet".    

I agree with your first statement, and I said as much in my post when I said I thought it was ethical to raise and butcher your own animals.  I'm interested in self sufficiency not just in utilities (energy, water, sewage) but also in food. I'm on the lookout for a plot of land for a smallholding and I'll have animals on it to help with the maintenance. Pigs are great for rooting out unharvested root vegetables that could otherwise harbour disease for next year's crop, while also tilling the fields. Chickens are great for pest control and scratching up a plot of land prior to sowing. Goats keep weeds under control in a field that is left fallow on rotation. All of the animals provide valuable compost. It's just in my smallholding they'd be pets and I'd let them die of old age. However I understand others would see the animals as a food source and harvest them as they would their crops. It's fair enough as they have raised and cared for them and would most likely kill them humanely and use pretty much all of the animal for food. 

The point I was making is that if you're so squeamish that you don't like to touch raw meat, never mind think about the process of getting it to your table, then perhaps you shouldn't be eating it.

NigeWick

silverwhistle said:

The best lamb I've had locally was some years ago as an office colleague had a paddock behind his house on the downs locally and the beast was despatched by a traveling slaughterman, avoiding a distressing trip to some far abattoir.  

I think there will be a place for travelling abattoirs in the future as more people want regeneratively and locally produced meat.

shinytop

NigeWick said:

silverwhistle said:

The best lamb I've had locally was some years ago as an office colleague had a paddock behind his house on the downs locally and the beast was despatched by a traveling slaughterman, avoiding a distressing trip to some far abattoir.  

I think there will be a place for travelling abattoirs in the future as more people want regeneratively and locally produced meat.

NigeWick said:

silverwhistle said:

The best lamb I've had locally was some years ago as an office colleague had a paddock behind his house on the downs locally and the beast was despatched by a traveling slaughterman, avoiding a distressing trip to some far abattoir.  

I think there will be a place for travelling abattoirs in the future as more people want regeneratively and locally produced meat.

Probably but it is likely to be more expensive.  It's not just the killing itself, there is a lot of low-value waste to be transported, processed and disposed of.  The big centres can do this more efficiently.  One method is to do the killing locally but the rest remotely.  Less moving of live animals and presumably carcasses/meat can be transported more efficiently.  There is some research online if anyone is interested.  

joefizz

shinytop said:

Probably but it is likely to be more expensive.  It's not just the killing itself, there is a lot of low-value waste to be transported, processed and disposed of.  The big centres can do this more efficiently.  One method is to do the killing locally but the rest remotely.  Less moving of live animals and presumably carcasses/meat can be transported more efficiently.  There is some research online if anyone is interested.  

Funny thing is, Im told thats the way it was here for a long time (still is in some places for smallholdings). I dont know what you mean about low value waste as Im not familar with it all but certainly I remember a time when pretty much everything was eaten or used.

We used to have a butchers at the top of our street and when you wanted sausages they would stand there putting meat through the grinder! I realise that thats probably a generational thing for a lot of people reading but we are about 20 years behind here in a lot of things ;-)

Where I source a lot of my meat they have kidneys, liver and although my granda did like his tripe and onions, the smell of it still turns me to this day! Still love good quality black pudding though and vegetable roll in a bap is food of the gods ;-)

Someone mentioned Wales being an importer of meat, thats because like a lot of poor places in the world, the value of what they produce is higher than the locals can afford. So export welsh lamb and import cheap dutch chicken. I remember watching a programme about the obesity crisis on a pacific island mostly down to exporting the food they produce and importing corned beef and having that with everything.

NigeWick

shinytop said:

Probably but it is likely to be more expensive. 

No doubt but worth it I believe. Regeneratively produced meat will be more expensive to buy but better value due to its improved nutrition.