Janome sewing machine price fixing?

Doc_N

Looking to buy an M7 Continental Janome sewing machine, on which I'd expect to see a range of prices.

Suspiciously - and I've noticed this before with sewing machines - all the prices are pretty much identical, and a retailer once told me that they were obliged to sell at the standard price or have supplies withdrawn.  He did agree to a discount but had to disguise it as something else in case it was spotted in an audit.

Highly illegal, of course, to control prices like this, but there seems to be no enforcement of the law.

Does anyone have any recommendations for getting discounts?  The margins are, I'd guess, at least 25%, probably more.  A 10-15% discount ought to be achievable in a normal market.

Were_Doomed

If the margin for the final seller is only 25% then I'd not expect much leeway to be given ... unless you're meaning that the 25% margin also takes account of all the seller's costs of being in business (rates, utilities, staff, etc.) - i.e. the margin is based on the fully-burdened cost of the product. Even then I'd not expect a seller to give much away ... 5% maybe - anything beyond that and the business viability starts to become at risk.

Doc_N

Were_Doomed said:

If the margin for the final seller is only 25% then I'd not expect much leeway to be given ... unless you're meaning that the 25% margin also takes account of all the seller's costs of being in business (rates, utilities, staff, etc.) - i.e. the margin is based on the fully-burdened cost of the product. Even then I'd not expect a seller to give much away ... 5% maybe - anything beyond that and the business viability starts to become at risk.

The gross margin is likely to be between 25 and 50% - plenty of scope there for discounts.  The margin's far better than on most domestic products, where discounting is the norm.  Freezers, TVs, cookers etc etc etc - you never ever find items being sold everywhere at exactly the same price unless some external factor is dictating that discounts aren't allowed to be given.

There is something very strange about Janome prices all being exactly the same across the country, online and in stores.

dinglebert

Also true of golf trollies.  There is never discounting.  They will throw in a bag from time to time but that happens for all shops and is dictated by the manufacturer.

Doc_N

dinglebert said:

Also true of golf trollies.  There is never discounting.  They will throw in a bag from time to time but that happens for all shops and is dictated by the manufacturer.

That’s interesting, an I suspect it might be the same with certain musical instruments such as keyboards.  

This really needs a proper investigation, but the regulators aren’t interested without documentary evidence, almost impossible to obtain.

dinglebert

Doc_N said:

dinglebert said:

Also true of golf trollies.  There is never discounting.  They will throw in a bag from time to time but that happens for all shops and is dictated by the manufacturer.

That’s interesting, an I suspect it might be the same with certain musical instruments such as keyboards.  

This really needs a proper investigation, but the regulators aren’t interested without documentary evidence, almost impossible to obtain.

The other one is current models of Hi-Fi and AV Receivers.  Yes old models are discounted but the new models all seem to be at just the same price whereever you look.  These items have one thing in common in that they are sold mainly by specialist shops.

Doc_N

dinglebert said:

Doc_N said:

dinglebert said:

Also true of golf trollies.  There is never discounting.  They will throw in a bag from time to time but that happens for all shops and is dictated by the manufacturer.

That’s interesting, an I suspect it might be the same with certain musical instruments such as keyboards.  

This really needs a proper investigation, but the regulators aren’t interested without documentary evidence, almost impossible to obtain.

The other one is current models of Hi-Fi and AV Receivers.  Yes old models are discounted but the new models all seem to be at just the same price whereever you look.  These items have one thing in common in that they are sold mainly by specialist shops.

More illegal price fixing then.  A nice little opportunity for some consumer champion or other to take up and research properly. Which?, perhaps.

dinglebert

Doc_N said:

dinglebert said:

Doc_N said:

dinglebert said:

Also true of golf trollies.  There is never discounting.  They will throw in a bag from time to time but that happens for all shops and is dictated by the manufacturer.

That’s interesting, an I suspect it might be the same with certain musical instruments such as keyboards.  

This really needs a proper investigation, but the regulators aren’t interested without documentary evidence, almost impossible to obtain.

The other one is current models of Hi-Fi and AV Receivers.  Yes old models are discounted but the new models all seem to be at just the same price whereever you look.  These items have one thing in common in that they are sold mainly by specialist shops.

More illegal price fixing then.  A nice little opportunity for some consumer champion or other to take up and research properly. Which?, perhaps.

Difficult to prove any sort of price fixing when its small specialist shops involved.  You would need to prove that the supplier did not allow the shop to lower any prices.

Doc_N

dinglebert said:

Doc_N said:

dinglebert said:

Doc_N said:

dinglebert said:

Also true of golf trollies.  There is never discounting.  They will throw in a bag from time to time but that happens for all shops and is dictated by the manufacturer.

That’s interesting, an I suspect it might be the same with certain musical instruments such as keyboards.  

This really needs a proper investigation, but the regulators aren’t interested without documentary evidence, almost impossible to obtain.

The other one is current models of Hi-Fi and AV Receivers.  Yes old models are discounted but the new models all seem to be at just the same price whereever you look.  These items have one thing in common in that they are sold mainly by specialist shops.

More illegal price fixing then.  A nice little opportunity for some consumer champion or other to take up and research properly. Which?, perhaps.

Difficult to prove any sort of price fixing when its small specialist shops involved.  You would need to prove that the supplier did not allow the shop to lower any prices.

I agree entirely.  I do know of illegal price fixing by at least three manufacturers or their UK distributors - one involving high end keyboards and the other two involving sewing machines. I know this from the retailers themselves, who told me about it but had to go along with it to avoid being blacklisted. This will, I'm sure be the tip of the iceberg.

Nothing I can prove, at least not without shopping the retailers in question, and I wouldn't dream of doing that.

[Deleted User]

Just done a price search for Janone m7 continental. Found one place offering £700 off and some goodies.  Took seconds. I am sure there are more if I looked.  Whenever looking for a main brand sewing machine I have always found price reductions somewhere online.  Or you can wait for a sale.  The story about blacklisting is sometimes along the lines of 'Woe is me I have my 7 children and frail parents to support' as cheaper prices can be found if you look.

Doc_N

deannatrois said:

Just done a price search for Janone m7 continental. Found one place offering £700 off and some goodies.  Took seconds. I am sure there are more if I looked.  Whenever looking for a main brand sewing machine I have always found price reductions somewhere online.  Or you can wait for a sale.  The story about blacklisting is sometimes along the lines of 'Woe is me I have my 7 children and frail parents to support' as cheaper prices can be found if you look.

Thanks - I haven't managed to find that.  Could you share the information please?