Advice needed - UKPC appeal failed. Popla failed. What next?

Joe_Challenger

Hi, I am not sure I have left it too late but from what I read today on here, its never too late I hope. I am hoping you can provide some advice on what I should do next.
The situation -
My missus works at a shopping precinct and they have parking permits for allocated parking areas. It is monitored by UKPC and the signage states permits must be displayed and visible via windscreen.
The permit was displayed but when the missus returned to her car after work, there was a PCN stuck to her windscreen. The permit was displayed on the dash of her Honda Civic but on the lower part of it (in front of the centre info screen on the newer civics) but it is still clearly visible stood next to the drivers side door through the windscreen.
We took pictures of its location the next morning when she told me about it to show she had a valid permit and where it was located.
We appealed this info to UKPC on their website and probably disclosed she was the driver at the time. We looked at their "photo evidence" and it covered angles from directly over the car bonnet and only from the passenger side still using the angle to hide the permit and even a close up interior of the front seats but avoided the same angle we showed in ours of the actual location of the permit. In each case the angles they used made full use of the dip in the dash to "hide" the view of the permit. I did provide them with our photos to show the location and how their photos were taken from places which seemed to deliberately obscure that location and that none of them showed it was not where we stated it was.
They refused to turnover the PCN they issued and so we had to appeal via Popla. We made a similar argument to Popla and while they agreed with the photos from the operator given were not clear they did show the permit not being visible on the upper dash and would not use our photos as they said they were not date time stamped even though I said they showed where the permit was located and that the operator had failed to show it was not actually there as stated by us. The operator even used our photos in comparison to their photos in their evidence against us with Popla, so why the operator can accept them and use them and Popla cannot I dont know. I did complain to Popla that they do not state anywhere on their appeal process that I have to provide timestamped photos for them to be acceptable as evidence (no reply from them of course).
I am now left to choose between paying £100 to make it just go away or allow it to possibly be taken to court (after dealing with the debt collection letters and empty threats that are likely to happen 1st). They have already sent a letter saying Popla found in their favour and want £100 or it will be £160 if they have to pass onto their debt recovery agent.
I have tried emailing the precinct management company to overturn the PCN but had no reply. I plan to go back and retake the same pictures they used to demonstrate how the permit was not visible and use a video to show how it magically comes into view once you move round to the side view over the wind screen as evidence for any future court case. I may possibly send this to them and ask how they plan to prove this is not where the permit was located and how their warden could not see it.
So should I bother trying to win this as it is extremely frustrating to have to pay anything when we did nothing wrong.
Cheers for any advice.

Redx

only you can decide this conundrum !! not us

plan A is always the best option

apart from paying in full, court is the other option, within 6 years

do not look for a magic bullet , there isnt one, its not appeal after appeal after appeal, there is no ombudsman option, no higher power

Coupon-mad

This is unacceptable.  Send a complaint email to Steve Clark at the BPA and show him this thread URL.  This is not good enough and this is a dodgy time for parking firms:

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

UKPC cannot be allowed to fool POPLA with angled photos that take advantage of the shape of a dashboard.  Shocking.

Joe_Challenger

Thanks for the responses. Just to update - I have taken like for like photos as the "warden" did and then additional photos of how the permit is entirely visible through the windscreen from the side. I also took a video starting from their photo views from the front of car and shown how if you walk around to the side of the car you can see the permit fine. This is especially condemning of them as the car was parked facing a wall and so you had to walk past the car side to take the photos.
They have clearly taken advantage of the shape of the cars dashboard design to obscure and attempt to engineer a fraud charge.
I will be sending these pictures & video along with theirs in comparison to BPA (as above) and also to them to notify them to drop the charge or I will just see them in court. I will probably send them to my local MP as well.

Coupon-mad

OK, make sure you send it to Steve Clark at the BPA as well.  I agree about the MP being copied in.

D_P_Dance

Consider complaining to your MP.

Fruitcake

I suggest you also complain to the DVLA since the scammers had no reason to obtain and process the keeper's personal data. Include the photo' evidence that a permit was on display and no parking terms were breached.
Your complaint should be twofold: one to complain that keeper data was requested and processed by the scammer, and one that the DVLA released the data without taking steps to ensure there was a valid reason to release it.
In other words you are complaining TO the DVLA and ABOUT the DVLA.

Send the complaint to the DVLA and the DVLA KADOE team respectively since this was both a data (GDPR) breach and KADOE contract breach.

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk 

and

KADOEservice.support@dvla.gov.uk

Ralph-y

perhaps one for the local / national press ?

Ralph

1505grandad

In view of the evidence and obvious scam, when corresponding with DVLA I would suggest that it would be in order to instruct them to restrict data given to third parties without your permission. 

When I tried this on behalf of my daughter (also for UKPC) a few years ago the DVLA advised:-

"If (daughter) would like to place a suppression marker on her driver/vehicle record in order to prevent any further companies or organisations obtaining her details in the future, then she will be required to submit her reasons in writing to our DVRE (Driver Vehicle Record Enquiries) team."

Maybe even a referral to the ICO  -- they seem receptive of UKPC data breaches.

D_P_Dance

UKPC have form, have you read this?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

Joe_Challenger

Hi, Just to update on this. I did send a fully compiled and comparison photo evidence and video of how the location of the permit was obscured using the shape of the dash by doing like for like high res photos as the original presented against us and how they hid the permit. The video reinforces the same views and how the most obvious angle next to car allows perfectly clear view of the permit in the location on dash and that was the photo the warden failed to make throughout to prove otherwise.
I have sent this to UKPC, BPA and local MP to complain about UKPC and POPLA.
Amazingly enough, UKPC have responded already and say they will be taking another look at the evidence and will get back to me.
So lets see what happens and I will update again.