Parking fine for returning a hire car?

GlobeTrotter12

I have read the newbie guide but am still in need of a little assistance on where to start with appealing my parking charge and what technical terms I can/can't use! The whole situation has me a little confused. 

Two friends and I hired a car for 4 days in the middle of August and the collection and drop off point is in the car park of a shopping centre. The collection of the car was OK, it was parked in a bay (ordinary bay, nothing special marked on the floor), no pay and display tickets etc in the car and the car parks ANPR system recognised the car reg and allowed us to exit the car park. When returning the car ANPR recognised the car reg (again) allowed us to enter and we called the number given to us (to get instructions on where to leave the keys) and parked (sensibly) in a bay. At no point were we told that we would have to purchase parking, nor did we assume we had to as we were returning the car back to the company.

A month later, and the car rental company has been issued with a contractual parking charge notice (at this point it is unbeknownst to me or my friends). Three weeks after they were issued with this charge, the Hire Company informed me (via email) that the Notice had been issued and deducted £55 from my credit card. The scanned copy of the letter stated that parking hadn't been paid, and we were parked for over 1000 minutes! Which makes no sense as the picture on the letter of the car 'arriving' is us entering the car park to return the car after hiring it. The other picture of the car 'leaving' 1000+ minutes later, has nothing to do with us as our hire had ended the previous day when we returned it. I'm assuming that picture is of the car being driven by the next person hiring the car, and driving it out of the car park. We did return the car a couple of hours before the hire ended, but if that was the issue, surely we would have been charged for not paying for parking between the time we returned it until the time rental lapsed, as opposed to the time we returned the car until the following person hired the car 1000+ minutes later? 

As the money had been deducted from my account, I wanted to make sure that I contacted the correct company (car hire company or car park management company) to appeal this and get my money back. However, upon investigation today, I can see that although the money has been deducted from my account the fee is actually still outstanding?! So the hire company has taken the money but not paid the fine to the car park management company? As I said above, the whole situation has me confused, so any advice on where to start and what technical terminology I can use in my appeal would be really appreciated!

Thanks,
GT12

Redx

the pcn has to be in your name to appeal it, but if the hire company pay it, its their right to do so

what may be in dispute is their right to deduct £55 from your credit card, so that all depends on what the hire contract says about parking charge notices

the hire company has the right under POFA to name the hirer, so that is the usual recommendation, the bottom of the first post in the NEWBIES faq sticky thread in announcements above has advice on hire vehicles

it seems very strange that they are using a SHOPPING CENTRE as a rendezvous point, probably without the landoiwners permission

Coupon-mad

It doesn't sound like they have paid it, as £55 is likely to be their exorbitant admin fee for handling the false PCN.  Did the hire firm say this is an admin fee for passing your data to the PPC? 

Unless I missed it, you have not told us who the PPC even is, or whether the hire firm gave them your data so that you get a PCN to appeal and win...

I would be emailing the DPO of the PPC and telling them they are liable for your £55 because this is a double visit ANPR failure and they have cost you £55 as a result.    Demand that the DPO (don't ask who that is...it's in the NEWBIES thread!) checks for images of the middle exit and entry times which were approximately (you give the DPO the approx time and dates of the missing ANPR captures) and they will find that it was two visits in 24 hours, a known ANPR flaw. 

As such, you then require that the PPC reimburses you the £55 and/or liaises with the hire firm to cancel the charge entirely, and explains the PPC's data breach, because they should never have obtained the hire firm's DVLA data.  And you expect an apology as well as the £55 back.

MistyZ

Agree with Coupon-mad.  Definitely looks like an admin fee, a particularly outrageous admin fee.  

Have you had a PCN from the PPC?  You need to name the PPC as if it is a BPA member hire car appeals to POPLA almost always win if done carefully.

D_P_Dance

C9mplain to your local Trading Standards Officer.

GlobeTrotter12

Hi all,

Thank you for your responses, I'm just going through and responding to your queries/clarifying points. Yeah they use the shopping centre as the collection/drop off point, I too thought it was strange, however, I was expecting a 'webuyanycar' kiosk in a car park sort of set up, but nope.

You are right, the £55 is the admin fee for the fine... and the car park management company is G24

The email from the car hire company says: 'Once we send the issuer your details the issuer will transfer the liability to you and issue you with a new PCN in your name. This gives you the opportunity to challenge the penalty or pay the reduce amount. The new PCN on your name will be send it by post to the address that you gave us.' I haven't received anything yet, its been over a month since the original letter was dated and sent to the car hire company. The contract for the car hire states this: 'The hirer shall be liable as owner of the vehicle in respect of any parking charges that may be incurred with respect to parking on private property and issued by a Private Parking Company'

I'm not entirely sure I follow what you mean about the ANPR. in the 'photographic evidence' of our party 'overstaying' the entrance picture is the time that corresponds with us terminating our hire and returning the car to the drop off point. I have no idea about the exit picture because it is the day after our hire ended. It's nothing to do with us at all.

I hope this gives you some more insight, please ask if you need more info. Thank you all again for your assistance

MistyZ

GlobeTrotter12 said:

in the 'photographic evidence' of our party 'overstaying' the entrance picture is the time that corresponds with us terminating our hire and returning the car to the drop off point. I have no idea about the exit picture because it is the day after our hire ended. It's nothing to do with us at all.

So the hire car entered while you were the hirer.  It exited when someone else was the hirer or, possibly, when the hire car company drove it out.  

I think at first it was assumed here that this was a case of 'double-dipping' i.e. when a car is parked for x time, then exits, then returns for y time.  And the ANPR 'catches' the first entry and the last exit and an alleged 'overstay' results.  

I reckon the PPC need to know that this was a hire car being returned one day & going out with someone else the next.  Do not on any account tell them who was driving if you email them.  Tell them you were the hirer, that's all.  Anyone who is insured to do so could have driven that car and IF this comes to a POPLA appeal, only the hirer is named for a near-certain win. 

Also, see what others think ... but the best way to proceed in the first instance may be to tell the (stupid) hire car company what has plainly happened here.  How the heck have they missed this?  And insist that they cancel this charge pronto.  And that they return admin fee pronto too.

KeithP

It will of course be easy to demonstrate that if an overstay is alleged, then you were not the keeper at that time. By the time any alleged overstay had occurred, the responsibilities of the keeper had reverted to the hire company. And also by that time the person who drove the car into the car park was of course no longer the driver.

Easy.